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JulesMrshn@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 4/17/99 10:33:22 PM Central Daylight Time,
> matroy@abacom.com writes:
>
> wise you are, but not how clever. Cleverness is an intagable quality. It has
> nothing to do with wisdom or intelligence. Most of the times it defies
> intelligence and wisdom. A high wisdom character would know better then to
> try and land inbetween the long pikes in the trap when the mean orcs are
> chasing you is a 1000 to 1 chance, but cleverness rarely is something that is
> without chance, that is planning and we all know about the best laid plans of
> mice and men. I use the maxium, you are clever when you are alive, but a
> fool when you are dead. People who are intellient and/or wise are very rarely
> fool hearty, then tend to plan and plan and plan to get things right.
> Something that results from tha isn't cleverness that is intelligence. If you
> have an INT of 9 means you are average, and I know the average joe can be
> pretty quick thinkint at times.

Now there's a great point. The main aspect is how you succeed, rather than
whether. The high int/wis character might weigh the options mentally as the mean
orcs are chasing him, and figure out some really complex plan to lead them into a
trap or high Cha might talk them out of wanting to eat him, whereas the less
int/wis character might just only see the pit o' spikes, and throw himself in
between, trusting in blind luck to save him. With creative roleplaying, both
methods might just as easily succeed or fail (hell, both probably would fail in
the real world, but that has little bearing here). The thing is, one player would
roleplay intelligently and creatively using his high att's to their full
advantage, while the other would roleplay intelligently and creatively knowing
his character's low att's fully. Neither is a worse roleplayer, and it's all
methodology.
- --Alaric

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JulesMrshn@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 4/17/99 10:33:22 PM Central Daylight
Time,
matroy@abacom.com writes:
<< A thought just struck me. Wouldn't someone who succeeded, in
spite of low
INT and
 WIS, by being clever be roleplaying poorly? >>
Int and Wis don't measure how clever you are, they measure how smart
and how
wise you are, but not how clever.  Cleverness is an intagable
quality. It has
nothing to do with wisdom or intelligence. Most of the times it defies
intelligence and wisdom.  A high wisdom character would know better
then to
try and land inbetween the long pikes in the trap when the mean orcs
are
chasing you is a 1000 to 1 chance, but cleverness rarely is something
that is
without chance, that is planning and we all know about the best laid
plans of
mice and men.  I use the maxium, you are clever when you are alive,
but a
fool when you are dead. People who are intellient and/or wise are very
rarely
fool hearty, then tend to plan and plan and plan to get things right.
Something that results from tha isn't cleverness that is intelligence.
If you
have an INT of 9 means you are average, and I know the average joe
can be
pretty quick thinkint at times.
Now there's a great point. The main aspect is how you succeed, rather
than whether. The high int/wis character might weigh the options mentally
as the mean orcs are chasing him, and figure out some really complex plan
to lead them into a trap or high Cha might talk them out of wanting to
eat him, whereas the less int/wis character might just only see the pit
o' spikes, and throw himself in between, trusting in blind luck to save
him. With creative roleplaying, both methods might just as easily succeed
or fail (hell, both probably would fail in the real world, but that has
little bearing here). The thing is, one player would roleplay intelligently
and creatively using his high att's to their full advantage, while the
other would roleplay intelligently and creatively knowing his character's
low att's fully. Neither is a worse roleplayer, and it's all methodology.
--Alaric

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