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Thread: Son of Benelik
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04-21-1999, 12:19 PM #11Craig DalrympleGuest
Son of Benelik
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Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 3:22 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Son of Benelik
> Mark VanderMeulen [vander+@pitt.edu] wonders if the gods would be
attracted
> to mortals. A quick look at nearly any religion or set of ancient stories
> settles this in the affirmative. See Hercules or Genesis.
> ...feels the gods might hesitate due to the possible consequences..
An
> idea that can quickly be rejected after a quick count of all the times you
> have made a fool of yourself over a little number, plus those times you
would
> have if you weren't being watched closely.
> ....thinks they might hesitate to take advantage of their
> worshipers...which also is hit by reality. The ladies do look upwards for
> lovers and nobody is more up than their god. The number of female
worshipers
> downright eager to be "taken advantage of" by their god would be huge.
> Objectively, there is every reason to assume there are plenty of
> half-gods running around, many of them likely PCs.
> Yours for deeper dungeons
> David Argall
I think David is hitting the nail on the head here. Especially when you
remember
the fact that these gods were all once mortals. I think this is a
fascinating point
to ponder. Even though they have divine power, they would still have "human"
wants and needs.
Of course we have had some 2,000 years for them to change and become
more deific than human, but the shadows of their old physical hang ups might
still haunt them.
Craig
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04-21-1999, 02:05 PM #12Mark A VandermeulenGuest
Son of Benelik
OK, now I'm going to start getting defensive, because your response has a
tone I can only interpret as mildly insulting.
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 WILLELA@aol.com wrote:
> Mark VanderMeulen [vander+@pitt.edu] wonders if the gods would be attracted
> to mortals. A quick look at nearly any religion or set of ancient stories
> settles this in the affirmative. See Hercules or Genesis.
First of all, this is a bald overgeneralization (and you'd better be able
to explain your reference to Genesis...). Second, just because that's how
many gods have been interpreted in the past, does not at all mean that
this is how they MUST BE in Cerilia. I mean, are we really debating about
gods here as if they had some empirical characteristics that can be
categorically defined? OK, so the Cerilian gods were obviously created
based on greek and nordic mythological progenitors, but that doesn't mean
we have to translate ALL the characteristics of those gods whole stock
into our games. If I want to spend some creative energy wondering about
the psychological effects of apotheosis, what's the harm in that? It
certainly shouldn't prevent you from playing the Cerilian gods the way YOU
want to.
> ...feels the gods might hesitate due to the possible consequences.. An
> idea that can quickly be rejected after a quick count of all the times you
> have made a fool of yourself over a little number, plus those times you would
> have if you weren't being watched closely.
Firstly, I am not a god. Therefore, any characteristics (or faults) of my
own personality cannot be said to necessarily be those of a god. I am
also reasonably certain that you are not a god, and are not therefore
talking from personal experience. Now, I'm perfectly willing to accept
that SOME of those might be relevant to gods, and particularly gods who,
as our story goes, were only humans themselves, but they have had
THOUSANDS of years of existance in which to change. Now, I know that I
myself, with only a measly 30 years of experience, have changed in
personality quite a lot, so I can only dimly imagine what the Cerilian
gods must have undergone. Further, how would it change YOUR behavior if
you knew WITHOUT A DOUBT, that by sleeping with a particular person, you
would cause thousands of people to be slaughtered in 150 years. And how
about if you were only REASONABLY SURE, that it would be VERY LIKELY to
occur? Would having that kind of knowledge of the consequences of your
actions change the way you would behave? I think (and hope) that it would.
Now, that kind of omniscience and fate determinism doesn't necessarily
need to be a part of a role-playing fantasy world, but there's also no
reason that it CAN'T be part of them. It certainly IS characteristic of a
number of real world religions, and some in fantasy literature as well.
> ....thinks they might hesitate to take advantage of their
> worshipers...which also is hit by reality. The ladies do look upwards for
> lovers and nobody is more up than their god. The number of female worshipers
> downright eager to be "taken advantage of" by their god would be huge.
I certainly hope any female readers of this list find this statement to be
as grotesquely sexist as I do. I don't doubt that it CAN occur, but I find
your logic to be appalling. I personally believe that MOST people who are
looking for love and intimacy are looking for a life companion with whom
they can share the joys and pains of existance, not for a quick hoist up
the social ladder. I would certainly HOPE that the number of people
willing to prostitute themselves in return for temporal power would not be
"huge." That being said, I CAN see it being done occasionally, but only
for very good reasons, and only with the consent of both parties (at least
for the gods of good alignment). And there are ALSO stories in mythology
of people going mad after having intercourse with gods, being that close
to something so much "bigger" than you.
(I appologize for making the above paragraph a bigger flame than I
intended. I do not think that you are sexist, just that you made a sexist
statement. Your other posts have led me to respect you as a person and a
role-player, and I have not lost any of that respect. But I do feel
pretty strongly that some things ought to be addressed.)
> Objectively, there is every reason to assume there are plenty of
> half-gods running around, many of them likely PCs.
Perhaps it's just my training and biases as a scientist, but do you
seriously believe that there is anything at all "objective" about the
arguments you are making here? This IS a game, you know, a piece of
fiction.
Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu
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04-21-1999, 05:17 PM #13Mathieu RoyGuest
Son of Benelik
Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:
> > ....thinks they might hesitate to take advantage of their
> > worshipers...which also is hit by reality. The ladies do look upwards for
> > lovers and nobody is more up than their god. The number of female worshipers
> > downright eager to be "taken advantage of" by their god would be huge.
>
> I certainly hope any female readers of this list find this statement to be
> as grotesquely sexist as I do.
I'm not too sure, seeing as there must be a nice contingent of upward-looking young
lords who would love to be taken advantadge of by Laerme... =)
Mathieu
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04-23-1999, 04:19 PM #14MrSpears@aol.coGuest
Son of Benelik
>
That might not even be a question, though. The God might just be
impregnating his/her follower in order to conceive a child which could show
the world the way to salvation. Sort of a Jesus thing. In that same light,
the god wouldn't even necesarrily have to use the human method of
impregnation...it could be more of the implanting of a seed in the womb type
thing. Of course, they'd probably have a reason for this other than just
trying to overrun the world with their children, but a reason shouldn't be
all that hard to find. And as for this being a way to take advantage of a
follower...sending a god-child to the world to further the aims of the god
would probably not fall under that category, especially if the god asked the
follower first. Besides, gods might not even have human sexual desires (or
at least not all) and therefore wouldn't be going around with humans unless
there was an actual need for it.
Spencer
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