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Thread: Son of Benelik

  1. #11
    Craig Dalrymple
    Guest

    Son of Benelik

    - ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    To:
    Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 3:22 AM
    Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Son of Benelik


    > Mark VanderMeulen [vander+@pitt.edu] wonders if the gods would be
    attracted
    > to mortals. A quick look at nearly any religion or set of ancient stories
    > settles this in the affirmative. See Hercules or Genesis.
    > ...feels the gods might hesitate due to the possible consequences..
    An
    > idea that can quickly be rejected after a quick count of all the times you
    > have made a fool of yourself over a little number, plus those times you
    would
    > have if you weren't being watched closely.
    > ....thinks they might hesitate to take advantage of their
    > worshipers...which also is hit by reality. The ladies do look upwards for
    > lovers and nobody is more up than their god. The number of female
    worshipers
    > downright eager to be "taken advantage of" by their god would be huge.
    > Objectively, there is every reason to assume there are plenty of
    > half-gods running around, many of them likely PCs.
    > Yours for deeper dungeons
    > David Argall

    I think David is hitting the nail on the head here. Especially when you
    remember
    the fact that these gods were all once mortals. I think this is a
    fascinating point
    to ponder. Even though they have divine power, they would still have "human"
    wants and needs.

    Of course we have had some 2,000 years for them to change and become
    more deific than human, but the shadows of their old physical hang ups might
    still haunt them.

    Craig

  2. #12
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    Son of Benelik

    OK, now I'm going to start getting defensive, because your response has a
    tone I can only interpret as mildly insulting.

    On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 WILLELA@aol.com wrote:

    > Mark VanderMeulen [vander+@pitt.edu] wonders if the gods would be attracted
    > to mortals. A quick look at nearly any religion or set of ancient stories
    > settles this in the affirmative. See Hercules or Genesis.

    First of all, this is a bald overgeneralization (and you'd better be able
    to explain your reference to Genesis...). Second, just because that's how
    many gods have been interpreted in the past, does not at all mean that
    this is how they MUST BE in Cerilia. I mean, are we really debating about
    gods here as if they had some empirical characteristics that can be
    categorically defined? OK, so the Cerilian gods were obviously created
    based on greek and nordic mythological progenitors, but that doesn't mean
    we have to translate ALL the characteristics of those gods whole stock
    into our games. If I want to spend some creative energy wondering about
    the psychological effects of apotheosis, what's the harm in that? It
    certainly shouldn't prevent you from playing the Cerilian gods the way YOU
    want to.

    > ...feels the gods might hesitate due to the possible consequences.. An
    > idea that can quickly be rejected after a quick count of all the times you
    > have made a fool of yourself over a little number, plus those times you would
    > have if you weren't being watched closely.

    Firstly, I am not a god. Therefore, any characteristics (or faults) of my
    own personality cannot be said to necessarily be those of a god. I am
    also reasonably certain that you are not a god, and are not therefore
    talking from personal experience. Now, I'm perfectly willing to accept
    that SOME of those might be relevant to gods, and particularly gods who,
    as our story goes, were only humans themselves, but they have had
    THOUSANDS of years of existance in which to change. Now, I know that I
    myself, with only a measly 30 years of experience, have changed in
    personality quite a lot, so I can only dimly imagine what the Cerilian
    gods must have undergone. Further, how would it change YOUR behavior if
    you knew WITHOUT A DOUBT, that by sleeping with a particular person, you
    would cause thousands of people to be slaughtered in 150 years. And how
    about if you were only REASONABLY SURE, that it would be VERY LIKELY to
    occur? Would having that kind of knowledge of the consequences of your
    actions change the way you would behave? I think (and hope) that it would.
    Now, that kind of omniscience and fate determinism doesn't necessarily
    need to be a part of a role-playing fantasy world, but there's also no
    reason that it CAN'T be part of them. It certainly IS characteristic of a
    number of real world religions, and some in fantasy literature as well.

    > ....thinks they might hesitate to take advantage of their
    > worshipers...which also is hit by reality. The ladies do look upwards for
    > lovers and nobody is more up than their god. The number of female worshipers
    > downright eager to be "taken advantage of" by their god would be huge.

    I certainly hope any female readers of this list find this statement to be
    as grotesquely sexist as I do. I don't doubt that it CAN occur, but I find
    your logic to be appalling. I personally believe that MOST people who are
    looking for love and intimacy are looking for a life companion with whom
    they can share the joys and pains of existance, not for a quick hoist up
    the social ladder. I would certainly HOPE that the number of people
    willing to prostitute themselves in return for temporal power would not be
    "huge." That being said, I CAN see it being done occasionally, but only
    for very good reasons, and only with the consent of both parties (at least
    for the gods of good alignment). And there are ALSO stories in mythology
    of people going mad after having intercourse with gods, being that close
    to something so much "bigger" than you.

    (I appologize for making the above paragraph a bigger flame than I
    intended. I do not think that you are sexist, just that you made a sexist
    statement. Your other posts have led me to respect you as a person and a
    role-player, and I have not lost any of that respect. But I do feel
    pretty strongly that some things ought to be addressed.)

    > Objectively, there is every reason to assume there are plenty of
    > half-gods running around, many of them likely PCs.

    Perhaps it's just my training and biases as a scientist, but do you
    seriously believe that there is anything at all "objective" about the
    arguments you are making here? This IS a game, you know, a piece of
    fiction.

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  3. #13
    Mathieu Roy
    Guest

    Son of Benelik

    Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:

    > > ....thinks they might hesitate to take advantage of their
    > > worshipers...which also is hit by reality. The ladies do look upwards for
    > > lovers and nobody is more up than their god. The number of female worshipers
    > > downright eager to be "taken advantage of" by their god would be huge.
    >
    > I certainly hope any female readers of this list find this statement to be
    > as grotesquely sexist as I do.

    I'm not too sure, seeing as there must be a nice contingent of upward-looking young
    lords who would love to be taken advantadge of by Laerme... =)

    Mathieu

  4. #14
    MrSpears@aol.co
    Guest

    Son of Benelik

    >

    That might not even be a question, though. The God might just be
    impregnating his/her follower in order to conceive a child which could show
    the world the way to salvation. Sort of a Jesus thing. In that same light,
    the god wouldn't even necesarrily have to use the human method of
    impregnation...it could be more of the implanting of a seed in the womb type
    thing. Of course, they'd probably have a reason for this other than just
    trying to overrun the world with their children, but a reason shouldn't be
    all that hard to find. And as for this being a way to take advantage of a
    follower...sending a god-child to the world to further the aims of the god
    would probably not fall under that category, especially if the god asked the
    follower first. Besides, gods might not even have human sexual desires (or
    at least not all) and therefore wouldn't be going around with humans unless
    there was an actual need for it.
    Spencer

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