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  1. #1
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    the Shadow World and the God of

    On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Finnsson wrote:

    > I don't think the Cold Rider is Azrai. The Shadow World was (and I quote
    > from the rulebook): "poisoned by the rise of the Unsurper, a gathering
    > evil that corrupted their homelands, and they fled to the dalight world
    > to escape his power. A small number of halflings arrived in Cerilia in
    > time to witness the battle of Mount Deismaar."

    Yes, but this is from the perspective of the halflings, who had no
    previous knowledge of Azrai. This "Usurper" could easily be Azrai from the
    perspective of the halflings. Chronologically, it works like this:
    1. Azrai discovers the shadow world
    2. Azrai starts taking control of the Shadow world
    3. The halflings notice the increasing corruption in the Shadow
    World, and not realizing the source, call it/him the Ursurper
    4. Increasing power of Azrai further corrupts the shadow world,
    forcing many halflings to flee to the material plane
    5. halfling begin to meet humans in Cerilia, don't immediately
    connect humans "Azrai" with their own "Ursurper"
    6. Deismaar goes boom
    7. halflings note that, although Azrai is proclaimed dead, the
    Shadow World is not returning to "normal."
    8. halflings begin encountering the Cold Rider, some begin
    connecting the Cold Rider with the Ursurper.

    I suppose the question then, is twofold:
    1. Are Azrai and the Ursurper the same?
    2. Are the Ursurper and the Cold Rider the same?

    I personally, would say yes to both, but you could conceive of any
    possible yes/no combination to those questions.

    > BTW, are there no Baatezu-cults in Cerilia? Some humanoids follow
    > tanar'ri-lords, and the tanar'ri are in a state of war against the
    > Baatezus, so I think there should be come cults that tries to kill
    > humanoids. Or?

    I hate using baatezu and tanar'ri. If I want to use devils and demons,
    then by gum I'll call them devils and demons. I figure if the FR gods
    can't make it easily through the Shadow World to Aebrynnis, then why
    should the FR nethercreatures? So instead, I've mostly replaced such
    creepies with some powerful shadow world spirits that essentially play the
    same role. I suppose if you really wanted to make a case, there might be
    baatezu and/or tanar'ri servitors of Kriesha and Belenik who might be able
    to use their patron's connection w/ Aebrynnis to get there easily and have
    subsequently "set up shop" for themselves in the Shadow World (perhaps
    doing so after Azrai was killed but before Kriesha and Belenik managed to
    "figure out" their new powers). This might also explain the independence
    (or semi-independence) of Cerilia's humanoid deities. Of course, I have
    no idea whether this makes any kind of sense, because I know nothing about
    Planescape, and haven't really looked at the rules for such things in
    ages, because that's not the kind of role-playing that generally appeals
    to me.

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  2. #2
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    the Shadow World and the God of

    Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:
    > Yes, but this is from the perspective of the halflings, who had no
    > previous knowledge of Azrai. This "Usurper" could easily be Azrai from the perspective of the halflings. Chronologically, it works like this:
    > 1. Azrai discovers the shadow world
    > 2. Azrai starts taking control of the Shadow world<

    Please note that The Shadow World is NOT an entire new plane - its the
    corruption of the Halfling's home plane. Call it whatever you like, but
    the Shadow World is just the corruption of Aebrynis' mirror plane. IMC,
    the Shadow World is what was called Shandara by the Halflings (the Happy
    Hunting Grounds, for lack of a better phrase). So, Azrai didn't
    *discover* the Shadow World, He MADE it (He corrupted an existing
    plane).

    (Sorry, Mark, don't mean to be so picky, its just that I see a lot of
    this kind of misconception in player groups here and there). :)

    Cheers,
    Darren

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