On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Finnsson wrote:

> I don't think the Cold Rider is Azrai. The Shadow World was (and I quote
> from the rulebook): "poisoned by the rise of the Unsurper, a gathering
> evil that corrupted their homelands, and they fled to the dalight world
> to escape his power. A small number of halflings arrived in Cerilia in
> time to witness the battle of Mount Deismaar."

Yes, but this is from the perspective of the halflings, who had no
previous knowledge of Azrai. This "Usurper" could easily be Azrai from the
perspective of the halflings. Chronologically, it works like this:
1. Azrai discovers the shadow world
2. Azrai starts taking control of the Shadow world
3. The halflings notice the increasing corruption in the Shadow
World, and not realizing the source, call it/him the Ursurper
4. Increasing power of Azrai further corrupts the shadow world,
forcing many halflings to flee to the material plane
5. halfling begin to meet humans in Cerilia, don't immediately
connect humans "Azrai" with their own "Ursurper"
6. Deismaar goes boom
7. halflings note that, although Azrai is proclaimed dead, the
Shadow World is not returning to "normal."
8. halflings begin encountering the Cold Rider, some begin
connecting the Cold Rider with the Ursurper.

I suppose the question then, is twofold:
1. Are Azrai and the Ursurper the same?
2. Are the Ursurper and the Cold Rider the same?

I personally, would say yes to both, but you could conceive of any
possible yes/no combination to those questions.

> BTW, are there no Baatezu-cults in Cerilia? Some humanoids follow
> tanar'ri-lords, and the tanar'ri are in a state of war against the
> Baatezus, so I think there should be come cults that tries to kill
> humanoids. Or?

I hate using baatezu and tanar'ri. If I want to use devils and demons,
then by gum I'll call them devils and demons. I figure if the FR gods
can't make it easily through the Shadow World to Aebrynnis, then why
should the FR nethercreatures? So instead, I've mostly replaced such
creepies with some powerful shadow world spirits that essentially play the
same role. I suppose if you really wanted to make a case, there might be
baatezu and/or tanar'ri servitors of Kriesha and Belenik who might be able
to use their patron's connection w/ Aebrynnis to get there easily and have
subsequently "set up shop" for themselves in the Shadow World (perhaps
doing so after Azrai was killed but before Kriesha and Belenik managed to
"figure out" their new powers). This might also explain the independence
(or semi-independence) of Cerilia's humanoid deities. Of course, I have
no idea whether this makes any kind of sense, because I know nothing about
Planescape, and haven't really looked at the rules for such things in
ages, because that's not the kind of role-playing that generally appeals
to me.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu