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  1. #1
    JNeighb934@aol.co
    Guest

    Neserie, the Shadow World and t

    In a message dated 04/02/99 11:51:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,
    GeeMan@linkline.com writes:

    >

    This is a very intriguing idea. I like it. It makes sense too, because
    apparently the Shadow World power arose sometime shortly before Deismaar. At
    least, this is when the first halfling refugees began crossing over. Perhaps
    Azrai was not completely confident that he would emerge victorious, he had to
    consider the possibility of his own demise in the battle. So he caused a son
    to be "born" (the mother could be a powerful demoness?) to carry on the fight
    in case something happened to him, but hopefully, if Azrai were victorious,
    to become his most powerful minion corrupting the fairie world as Azrai
    corrupted the mortal world. Azrai was known as the Shadow, a god of darkness
    and corruption, the same qualities the Cold Rider exhibits. More evidence
    linking them together. This Son of Azrai could be the one granting the
    Adurian priests their spells, with the priesthood considering him the rebirth
    of Azrai and so refer to Jr. as Azrai as well.
    And it is suggested in the Rulebook that some of the more powerful
    awnsheghlien (the Gorgon included) answer to a power even more evil and more
    powerful than themselves. If this power were the Son of Azrai, also known as
    the Cold Rider, then events could easily lead to a truly epic battle of
    historic proportions, a second Deismaar with the entire forces of good and
    evil meeting on the field with the future of the world hanging in the
    balance. This would make a great storyline and theme for a campaign.

  2. #2
    JNeighb934@aol.co
    Guest

    Neserie, the Shadow World and t

    In a message dated 04/02/99 11:51:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,
    GeeMan@linkline.com writes:

    >

    I'm interested in finding out the source where you got that information? One
    of the novels, perhaps, or from one of the sourcebooks?

  3. #3
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Neserie, the Shadow World and t

    JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:

    > In a message dated 04/02/99 11:51:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,
    > GeeMan@linkline.com writes:
    >
    > wants to go check. >>
    >
    > I'm interested in finding out the source where you got that information? One
    > of the novels, perhaps, or from one of the sourcebooks?

    Actually, I was thinking of the list of gods in the Guide to the Astral Plane
    (p38), but it turns out I am incorrect if that reference is correct. It lists
    all the "good" Cerilian gods who died at Deismaar, but Azrai is NOT on that
    list.... (I think at this point the music should swell dramatically and everyone
    should look at each other apprehensively.)

    Of course, that list is not definitive, and it says right that there that there
    are "many more" but it would seem odd to list every god who died from the
    campaign setting, but omit Azrai. Hmmmm. Got to think about this one a bit....

    Gary

  4. #4
    JNeighb934@aol.co
    Guest

    Neserie, the Shadow World and t

    So my original thought that Azrai may indeed still be alive is starting to
    make more sense now? I also had a thought that he channeled some of his
    essence into some object, like the silver owl-shaped pendant Vorynn gave to
    Ruornil just before Deismaar. After the cataclysm, that object got blown
    many miles away from the site and ended up buried deep beneath the earth, but
    it enabled Azrai to survive. But because he is separated from the vessel
    bearing his essence, his power is now severely limited. He must regain the
    vessel to return to his former power and glory, but because of the strength
    of the Anuirean Empire his minions could not recover it. You see, they would
    have to control the land in order to recover the object, there's no way they
    could dig up that much earth in secret.
    Where is the object located? Somewhere underneath Medoere. That is why
    Ruornil directed his prophetess Suris Enlien to establish a theocracy in that
    land, (an extremely unusual thing for a church of Ruornil to do) to guard
    over the object and keep Azrai's minions from getting to it. After the
    Empire fell apart, Ruornil became worried and decided his priests would have
    to take matters into their own hands. However, I have not had the benefit of
    reading the sourcebook on Medoere yet, so I don't know if that reference
    gives another reason for the theocracy's existence.
    I still like the idea of the son of Azrai being the Cold Rider, though. He
    could definitely still fit into this scenario. Does anyone think this sounds
    like a good campaign plot, or do you think Azrai is better left dead? Would
    his being alive alter the setting too much? But again, where are the priests
    of the Adurian Empire and the Hand of Azrai getting their spells if Azrai is
    totally extinct?

  5. #5
    Pieter Sleijpen
    Guest

    Neserie, the Shadow World and t

    The Playersecret book states that Ruornil has got something in mind with
    the theocracy. What that is, is not known to the priests of Ruornil, but
    there is a holy sword for a palaadin of Ruornil (as anyone who is a
    member of the mailing list for some time probably already knows). So
    your idea of this goal is as good as any, if not as good. Your idea of
    Azrai looks good to my idea, it is similar to what happened with Myrkul
    in the FR. His essence is in an artefact and he does not mind one bit.
    Now he is not bind by the rules of the deities and wreak as much havoc
    and death as he wants.

    Pieter

    JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:
    >
    > So my original thought that Azrai may indeed still be alive is starting to
    > make more sense now? I also had a thought that he channeled some of his
    > essence into some object, like the silver owl-shaped pendant Vorynn gave to
    > Ruornil just before Deismaar. After the cataclysm, that object got blown
    > many miles away from the site and ended up buried deep beneath the earth, but
    > it enabled Azrai to survive. But because he is separated from the vessel
    > bearing his essence, his power is now severely limited. He must regain the
    > vessel to return to his former power and glory, but because of the strength
    > of the Anuirean Empire his minions could not recover it. You see, they would
    > have to control the land in order to recover the object, there's no way they
    > could dig up that much earth in secret.
    > Where is the object located? Somewhere underneath Medoere. That is why
    > Ruornil directed his prophetess Suris Enlien to establish a theocracy in that
    > land, (an extremely unusual thing for a church of Ruornil to do) to guard
    > over the object and keep Azrai's minions from getting to it. After the
    > Empire fell apart, Ruornil became worried and decided his priests would have
    > to take matters into their own hands. However, I have not had the benefit of
    > reading the sourcebook on Medoere yet, so I don't know if that reference
    > gives another reason for the theocracy's existence.
    > I still like the idea of the son of Azrai being the Cold Rider, though. He
    > could definitely still fit into this scenario. Does anyone think this sounds
    > like a good campaign plot, or do you think Azrai is better left dead? Would
    > his being alive alter the setting too much? But again, where are the priests
    > of the Adurian Empire and the Hand of Azrai getting their spells if Azrai is
    > totally extinct?
    > ************************************************** *************************
    > > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

  6. #6
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    Neserie, the Shadow World and t

    JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:
    > And it is suggested in the Rulebook that some of the more powerful
    > awnsheghlien (the Gorgon included) answer to a power even more evil and more powerful than themselves. If this power were the Son of Azrai, also known as the Cold Rider, then events could easily lead to a truly epic battle of historic proportions, a second Deismaar with the entire forces of good and evil meeting on the field with the future of the world hanging in the balance. This would make a great storyline and theme for a campaign.<

    Yep - this *is* my current campaign. (Except that the Cold Rider is the
    real Azrai, not the 'offspring'). The Second Shadow War is upon the
    people of Cerilia, and the dawn of a new age has arrived ... ;)

    I've broken my campaign up into 5 'generations', and my players have
    made up characters for each human culture, whom they play when I focus
    on that area in each generation. So far, the campaign is going great,
    but only 1 of my players really suspects whats actually unfolding around
    them! Soon they will be introduced to The Cold Rider's right hand agent
    (The Ghul Lord, whom I mentioned before), and hopefully, I will rope
    them in to their inescapable fates (death by the hand of Azrai!)

    Muwhuhahahahahahaaaa!

    Cheers,
    Darren

  7. #7
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Neserie, the Shadow World and t

    JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:

    > So my original thought that Azrai may indeed still be alive is starting to
    > make more sense now? I also had a thought that he channeled some of his
    > essence into some object, like the silver owl-shaped pendant Vorynn gave to
    > Ruornil just before Deismaar. After the cataclysm, that object got blown
    > many miles away from the site and ended up buried deep beneath the earth, but
    > it enabled Azrai to survive. But because he is separated from the vessel
    > bearing his essence, his power is now severely limited. He must regain the
    > vessel to return to his former power and glory, but because of the strength
    > of the Anuirean Empire his minions could not recover it. You see, they would
    > have to control the land in order to recover the object, there's no way they
    > could dig up that much earth in secret.
    > Where is the object located? Somewhere underneath Medoere. That is why
    > Ruornil directed his prophetess Suris Enlien to establish a theocracy in that
    > land, (an extremely unusual thing for a church of Ruornil to do) to guard
    > over the object and keep Azrai's minions from getting to it. After the
    > Empire fell apart, Ruornil became worried and decided his priests would have
    > to take matters into their own hands. However, I have not had the benefit of
    > reading the sourcebook on Medoere yet, so I don't know if that reference
    > gives another reason for the theocracy's existence.
    > I still like the idea of the son of Azrai being the Cold Rider, though. He
    > could definitely still fit into this scenario. Does anyone think this sounds
    > like a good campaign plot, or do you think Azrai is better left dead? Would
    > his being alive alter the setting too much? But again, where are the priests
    > of the Adurian Empire and the Hand of Azrai getting their spells if Azrai is
    > totally extinct?

    I like this scenario, personally. I might do something like it in my campaign,
    but I'm thinking that I will do the following:

    1. Azrai is dead. I just think he should have been killed at Deismaar otherwise
    the gods' sacrifice was less significant, and I still can't figure out how his
    bloodline would have been spattered around if he didn't die just like everyone
    else.

    2. This item, however, is something that the Cold Rider (his offspring) is
    looking for so that he can bring his father back. CR has been waiting on the SW,
    looking for this item to turn up in that epic fantasy, Tolkienesque kind of way
    that is so prevelant in fantasy settings.

    3. I'll combine adventure and realm actions by having a few agents of the CR come
    in to try to get this item (I have to figure out how to get my PCs from Aerenwe
    to Medoere because that is where they are based) and then add in realm actions
    when he comes personally and in force to attempt to get it (assuming the PCs
    thwart his agents).

    Depending on how things go this could be a pretty big deal. I'm going to have to
    give it some thought.

    Gary

  8. #8
    DKEvermore@aol.co
    Guest

    Neserie, the Shadow World and t

    In a message dated 4/3/99 1:13:22 AM Central Daylight Time,
    GeeMan@linkline.com writes:

    > Of course, that list is not definitive, and it says right that there that
    > there
    > are "many more" but it would seem odd to list every god who died from the
    > campaign setting, but omit Azrai. Hmmmm. Got to think about this one a
    bit.
    > ...
    >
    > Gary
    >
    Yep, noticed this myself after one of my players lent me his Planescape book.
    I decided there was a very good reason for this.

    Perhaps Azrai was "reduced", not destroyed. He was after all powerful enough
    to kill 7 other gods. I know that's not precisely how it is stated, but I
    think if there could be a posthumous trial against Azrai for this, he would
    be convicted of murdering 7 gods.

    Sure they hurt him back. BOOM. ouch. I don't even think he necessarily
    needs to "recover" all his old bloodline. It might just be easier to build
    himself up again.

    I see the Cold Rider of the Shadow World as a manifestation of Azrai himself.
    If you really want to scare the players, note that he has control of an
    ENTIRE WORLD about the same size of Cerilia. When he begins to reach through
    the veil into Cerilia again.... well I wonder if the new gods would have even
    have a chance. But that's why there are great artifacts and PCs! :)

    - -DKE

  9. #9
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    Neserie, the Shadow World and t

    On Sat, 3 Apr 1999 JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:

    > I still like the idea of the son of Azrai being the Cold Rider, though. He
    > could definitely still fit into this scenario. Does anyone think this sounds
    > like a good campaign plot, or do you think Azrai is better left dead? Would
    > his being alive alter the setting too much? But again, where are the priests
    > of the Adurian Empire and the Hand of Azrai getting their spells if Azrai is
    > totally extinct?

    My favorite version is that the Cold Rider is a fragment of Azrai. Azrai
    was too proud to even consider that he might be in danger from the other
    gods, and the fact that he might actually be KILLED never even began to
    have to slightest inkling of the possibility of crossing his mind. He
    didn't even realize his peril until it was too late (and the other gods
    were relying on this). However, one of the reasons he was able to attain
    so much power was because of his connection to the Shadow World, and he
    used this connection at the last moment to try to escape. However, he only
    managed to withdraw a small portion before he was killed. The rest of his
    godly corpus went splat, and managed to form not only 2 gods, but also
    numerous Awnsheighlein.

    So now, there is a tiny fregment of Azrai, wandering around the Shadow
    World in the form that Azrai took when he visited the Shadow World. But,
    that fragment HAS AMNESIA. The Cold Rider DOESN'T KNOW that he's Azrai,
    doesn't know WHAT he is, and doesn't know how to cross into the material
    world. Naturally, information is pretty hard to come by in the Shadow
    World, and Ruornil is doing everything he CAN to keep the Cold Rider from
    learning that he is Azrai.

    Of course, another interesting theory is that the Cold Rider is Azrai, but
    that Azrai is no longer alive. But he's not dead either. In fact, he's
    become the first UNDEAD GOD.



    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  10. #10
    brandes
    Guest

    Neserie, the Shadow World and t

    >So now, there is a tiny fregment of Azrai, wandering around the Shadow
    >World in the form that Azrai took when he visited the Shadow World. But,
    >that fragment HAS AMNESIA. The Cold Rider DOESN'T KNOW that he's Azrai,
    >doesn't know WHAT he is, and doesn't know how to cross into the material
    >world. Naturally, information is pretty hard to come by in the Shadow
    >World, and Ruornil is doing everything he CAN to keep the Cold Rider from
    >learning that he is Azrai.
    >
    >Of course, another interesting theory is that the Cold Rider is Azrai, but
    >that Azrai is no longer alive. But he's not dead either. In fact, he's
    >become the first UNDEAD GOD.


    Actually, Azrai would only be the first Undead god in Birthright. Outside
    of BR, Orcus was an evil god of some description who was destroyed and
    brought back as Tenebrous and, later, Primus (IIRC).

    Brandes

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