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  1. #21
    JNeighb934@aol.co
    Guest

    Even MORE about bloodlines!

    In a message dated 03/23/99 23:22:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
    mcsorley.1@osu.edu writes:

    >

    Actually, the book states that the scion retains his bloodline "unless he
    willingly gave it away by designating it before his death." That also implies
    that a resurrected scion is without his bloodline if he was killed via
    bloodtheft or divested of his bloodline before death.

  2. #22
    Jeff Dunnett
    Guest

    Even MORE about bloodlines!

    I think what your saying makes a lot of sense. I think bloodlines are a
    good device for game mechanics and should not have an affect on
    personality. Other then the fact that it makes you want to rule.
    Excluding Azira because his blood is so evil it curropts. As a player I
    would not want my personality to depend on the bloodline I have,
    especially since bloodline depends on a roll.

    jeff

    - --- JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:
    > In a message dated 03/23/99 1:17:03 AM Pacific
    > Standard Time,
    > Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca writes:
    >
    > few and very specific.
    > Anduiras would only pass on the traits of chivalry,
    > goodness,
    > leadership, and a strong sense of justice for
    > example. >>
    >
    > But wasn't Anduiras actually more of a god of war and
    > rulership without all
    > the chivalry and justice attached? After all, what
    > the Andu did to the elves
    > was hardly a cause dripping in justice. It was war
    > waged to serve the needs
    > of a warlike people who wanted to rule their own
    > destiny, be damned anyone who
    > got in their way and I'm sure Anduiras was just fine
    > with that as long as
    > their enemies were met square on in battle. The
    > traits you mention seem more
    > indicitive of Haelyn, a more sophisticated version of
    > Anduiras as civilization
    > advanced and the tribal warlord-kings of the Andu and
    > their warriors started
    > to become the ruling nobility of the Empire. The new
    > gods serve the needs of
    > a much more civilized people. The old gods are
    > probally all much less
    > sophisticated, and therefore the influence of their
    > essences in the blood of
    > the scions should be much more basic and neutral in
    > alignment. Scions of
    > Anduiras are drawn to battle and glory and ruling
    > other lesser men, whether
    > out of a chivalric notion to protect and serve one's
    > people and land or out of
    > an egomaniacal drive for power and bloodlust. In
    > other words, a scion of
    > Anduiras is just as likey to be a tyrant as a
    > chivalrous knight, depending on
    > the individual's personality and alignment. Perhaps
    > it is the prevalence of
    > the worship of Haelyn among the Anuirean nobility in
    > particular that keeps the
    > majority of the scions of Anduiras in line with good.
    > In a similar vein, scions of Brenna covet wealth,
    > Reynir- love of the forest
    > and/or hunting, Masela- drawn to the sea,etc. But
    > any of these influences are
    > very basic in nature and have little bearing on good
    > or evil. Otherwise,
    > scions of the same derivation would all have
    > basically the same personality,
    > which is clearly not the case. Does my thinking make
    > sense?
    >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to
    > majordomo@mpgn.com with the line
    > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    >

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  3. #23
    DKEvermore@aol.co
    Guest

    Even MORE about bloodlines!

    In a message dated 3/24/99 1:22:54 AM Central Standard Time,
    mcsorley.1@osu.edu writes:

    > The book of Priestcraft stated that if a scion is ever killed and then
    > somehow brought back, their bloodline is gone (not even a 0 I think). Even
    > if they were the ruler of a kingdom in life, they couldn't then rule it
    > since they had no bloodline. In fact, if they ever did gain a new
    bloodline
    > somehow, they still couldn't regain their old kingdom because the land
    would
    > reject them.
    >
    Yep, that's how I've been playing it. Once a PC was killed in a battle in
    which a powerful demon was participating (on the same side as the PCs, even!).
    In gratitude for saving it's demonic hide (it didn't know the PCs didn't mean
    to) it brought back the dead PC--much to the horror of the party. I then
    stripped him of his bloodline and kingdom, informing him the land rejected
    him. (In this case the player didn't care anyway, he had more important
    things to worry about :) But hey, he was alive, wasn't he?

    - -DKE

  4. #24
    Bob Cauthron
    Guest

    Even MORE about bloodlines!

    Response below.

    - -----Original Message-----
    From: Jim Cooper
    To: birthright@mpgn.com
    Date: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 3:23 PM
    Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Even MORE about bloodlines!


    >JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:
    >> In a similar vein, scions of Brenna covet wealth, Reynir- love of the
    forest and/or hunting, Masela- drawn to the sea,etc. But any of these
    influences are very basic in nature and have little bearing on good or evil.
    Otherwise, scions of the same derivation would all have basically the same
    personality, which is clearly not the case. Does my thinking make sense?<
    >
    >Interesting. Yes, it does make sense. So you are saying that the Old
    >Gods represented a more 'savage'/elemental nature, whereas the New Gods
    >represent a higher level of deityhood. I could live with this. Kinda
    >like they represented elemental forces like pagan gods, and the new gods
    >represent more than that because they had physical form and
    >personalities at one time ...
    >
    >Consensus everyone? Personally, I have always felt that the Old Gods
    >represented the pinnacle of any godhood of all the AD&D games - they
    >were beyond levels and such and represented the perfect ideals and
    >culture of the ancient civilations they represented. They could do
    >anything, were in essense every character class possible at the same
    >time. Indeed, I think each single god fulfilled all the roles their
    >mortals needed this deity to fulfill. The New Gods, on the other hand,
    >are mere 'shadows' of their progenitor's image, and thus are limited to
    >represent certain 'spheres' in the Cerilian ideology. These sphere
    >being the most closely that the progenitor favoured and they mirrored
    >... this is why they were the Old Gods #1 champions
    >
    >Cheers,
    >Me

    In my view, the elder gods are indeed more primal, as I see them as
    being more "elemental" in nature, akin to "uncaring" forces rather than
    reflections of mortals such as humans. The elder gods are truly inscrutable
    and mysterious because of their nature, and not becauss of anything else. Of
    course, gods are this way to begin with, but the elder ones are more so. As
    the younger gods attune themselves to their divine nature, they become more
    like this, but they will not convert completely. Their outlooks will be
    molded by their past, which includes their mortal origins.

  5. #25
    JNeighb934@aol.co
    Guest

    Even MORE about bloodlines!

    In a message dated 03/24/99 14:12:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
    Wulfheim@worldnet.att.net writes:

    >

    I was under the impression that the Old Gods were especially close to their
    mortal worshippers- too close, in fact; the result being their destruction at
    Deismaar. That is why the new gods made a pact, even Belenik and Kriesha, to
    never again meet on the prime plane in physical form to avoid another
    cataclysm, and instead have taken to indirect action using their churches and
    priests to accomplish their goals. But the old gods seem to have had a much
    closer relationship with their respective tribe and priests (Vorynn and
    Ruornil seemed to have had a kind of personal friendship between them) and my
    guess is they sent their avatars to aid them quite frequently. How else could
    the elves have been so utterly overwhelmed by man's clerical magic and reduced
    to the relatively small forest kingdoms they rule today?
    And also I see the old gods as having represented ancient, tribal cultures
    whose level of civilization was much less advanced than the cultures of modern
    Cerilia. Therefore their portfolios would have been simpler and less
    sophisticated, and demands on their followers less, well, demanding. But the
    gods were simpler only because their worshippers didn't require complexity of
    them, and they still seemed to possess many human characteristics about them.
    Perhaps in the dawn of man's beginnings the old gods had been mortals
    themselves, ascending to the heavens to guide and protect their tribes like
    the new gods would do millenia later.

  6. #26
    Jeff Dunnett
    Guest

    Even MORE about bloodlines!

    I think your mistaken, I recently read in the Book of Priestcraft that
    the person if they are brought back from the dead they regain their
    bloodline, but can't get their kingdom back because the connection has
    been sevred but they can get holdings somewhere else. That is if they
    can get brought back. I like the fact that only a few priesthoods can
    raise.

    - --- Daniel McSorley wrote:
    > From: JNeighb934@aol.com
    > >If a blooded
    > >character is killed via bloodtheft, and somehow
    > resurrected or reincarnated
    > >(I know, this would be extremely rare) what do you
    > bloodline
    > > back or make him a commoner?
    > The book of Priestcraft stated that if a scion is
    > ever killed and then
    > somehow brought back, their bloodline is gone (not
    > even a 0 I think). Even
    > if they were the ruler of a kingdom in life, they
    > couldn't then rule it
    > since they had no bloodline. In fact, if they ever
    > did gain a new bloodline
    > somehow, they still couldn't regain their old kingdom
    > because the land would
    > reject them.
    >
    > Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu
    >
    >
    >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to
    > majordomo@mpgn.com with the line
    > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    >

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