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Thread: Even MORE about bloodlines!
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03-23-1999, 11:58 AM #11JulesMrshn@aol.coGuest
Even MORE about bloodlines!
In a message dated 3/23/99 3:16:56 AM Central Standard Time,
Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca writes:
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03-23-1999, 02:19 PM #12Mark A VandermeulenGuest
Even MORE about bloodlines!
On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:
> But wasn't Anduiras actually more of a god of war and rulership without all
> the chivalry and justice attached? After all, what the Andu did to the elves
> was hardly a cause dripping in justice. It was war waged to serve the needs
> of a warlike people who wanted to rule their own destiny, be damned anyone who
> got in their way and I'm sure Anduiras was just fine with that as long as
> their enemies were met square on in battle. The traits you mention seem more
> indicitive of Haelyn, a more sophisticated version of Anduiras as civilization
> advanced and the tribal warlord-kings of the Andu and their warriors started
> to become the ruling nobility of the Empire. The new gods serve the needs of
> a much more civilized people. The old gods are probally all much less
> sophisticated, and therefore the influence of their essences in the blood of
> the scions should be much more basic and neutral in alignment. Scions of
> Anduiras are drawn to battle and glory and ruling other lesser men, whether
> out of a chivalric notion to protect and serve one's people and land or out of
> an egomaniacal drive for power and bloodlust. In other words, a scion of
> Anduiras is just as likey to be a tyrant as a chivalrous knight, depending on
> the individual's personality and alignment. Perhaps it is the prevalence of
> the worship of Haelyn among the Anuirean nobility in particular that keeps the
> majority of the scions of Anduiras in line with good.
Well. Justice is a major portion of Anduiras's portfolio, but I agree with
the point you're making. I actually don't see Anduiras really so much a
god of goodness as a god of Honor and I think that the anuireans have a
somewhat different view of what it means to be honorable under Haelyn
than they did under Anduiras. Perhaps that was what let them grow as a
civilization from a tribal culture to an Imperial culture. Heck, perhaps
if your culture's organizing conceptions are personified in the form of a
god, you HAVE to kill them off every once in a while to keep from
becomming culturally stagnant.
Anyway, and back to the point, I see Anduiras definitely as a god of
Honor, of "right conduct" but we all know that honor (like most things)
can be taken too far, and can be perverted to megalomaniacal ends.
> In a similar vein, scions of Brenna covet wealth, Reynir- love of the forest
> and/or hunting, Masela- drawn to the sea,etc. But any of these influences are
> very basic in nature and have little bearing on good or evil. Otherwise,
> scions of the same derivation would all have basically the same personality,
> which is clearly not the case. Does my thinking make sense?
Perfect sense. I generally play NPC's with bloodlines as you've described
them. With certain central tendencies but with distinct personalities,
variations around that theme. Now I may start role-playing the
"tendencies" of my PC's bloodlines, to give them a "poke" in an
interesting direction every now and then. I don't go nearly to the extent
that Darren was advocating, but it's clear he's playing rhetoric games
with us (the slippery bugger ;)~ ).
Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu
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03-23-1999, 03:30 PM #13Kenneth GauckGuest
Even MORE about bloodlines!
>> Well as a player I wouldn't want my bloodline dicating what I do,<
>
>That's part of the problem! :)
I have seen players walk out of a campaign over this type of thing. Some
players believe that the creation of their character is 100% their part of
the game, and even attempts to impart cultural information ("Amnibarprex
would know that entering the Sielwode is very dangerous") are viewed as an
intrusion. I would recomend that something as determining as this should be
a negotiation between the players, not something imparted from on high.
Kenneth Gauck
c558382@earthlink.net
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03-23-1999, 08:05 PM #14GabrielGuest
Even MORE about bloodlines!
> > This came up once in my campaign and I told the unlucky PC he needed to steal it back, now sadly much reduced!<
>
> It was me as the DM, I would do the same thing. Thats because I, too,
> am a:
>
> > a cruel bastard.<
Same with the one instance of that occuring in my game
>
> Like you said! ;D
>
> > Incidently, it was another PC that did it. It didn't do much for party unity. ;)<
>
> Cool - I'm not alone in psychotic PC parties ...
>
Certainly not alone. I had one player turn evil, and then manage to convince another player to go over to the Dark Side with him. It all worked out
badly for the good guys in the long run, and it ended up with an NPC (previously a PC) and one of my PCs getting sticked with a Tighmaevril weapon. No
good. Party unity has never really recovered.
G'luck,
Alaric
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03-23-1999, 10:00 PM #15Jim CooperGuest
Even MORE about bloodlines!
JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:
> In a similar vein, scions of Brenna covet wealth, Reynir- love of the forest and/or hunting, Masela- drawn to the sea,etc. But any of these influences are very basic in nature and have little bearing on good or evil. Otherwise, scions of the same derivation would all have basically the same personality, which is clearly not the case. Does my thinking make sense?<
Interesting. Yes, it does make sense. So you are saying that the Old
Gods represented a more 'savage'/elemental nature, whereas the New Gods
represent a higher level of deityhood. I could live with this. Kinda
like they represented elemental forces like pagan gods, and the new gods
represent more than that because they had physical form and
personalities at one time ...
Consensus everyone? Personally, I have always felt that the Old Gods
represented the pinnacle of any godhood of all the AD&D games - they
were beyond levels and such and represented the perfect ideals and
culture of the ancient civilations they represented. They could do
anything, were in essense every character class possible at the same
time. Indeed, I think each single god fulfilled all the roles their
mortals needed this deity to fulfill. The New Gods, on the other hand,
are mere 'shadows' of their progenitor's image, and thus are limited to
represent certain 'spheres' in the Cerilian ideology. These sphere
being the most closely that the progenitor favoured and they mirrored
... this is why they were the Old Gods #1 champions
Cheers,
Me
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03-23-1999, 10:07 PM #16Jim CooperGuest
Even MORE about bloodlines!
Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:
> I don't go nearly to the extent that Darren was advocating, but it's clear he's playing rhetoric games with us (the slippery bugger ;)~ ).<
Heh.
WHO ME?!?!??! Nooooo!!! ;D
(Just trying to liven up this sleepy mailing list!!!)
Cheers,
Me (who OBVIOUSLY holds the bloodline of Brenna ...) ;)
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03-23-1999, 10:50 PM #17DKEvermore@aol.coGuest
Even MORE about bloodlines!
In a message dated 3/23/99 4:12:56 PM Central Standard Time,
Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca writes:
> WHO ME?!?!??! Nooooo!!! ;D
>
> (Just trying to liven up this sleepy mailing list!!!)
>
> Cheers,
> Me (who OBVIOUSLY holds the bloodline of Brenna ...) ;)
>
A BLOODLINE!!! GET HIM!!! I'll hold 'im down, somebody quick stick 'im! I
never seen one o' them cool displays when a scion of Brenna kicks off!
hey, this just tipped off another relavent question. I know this has come up
on the list before, but some people have come and others left. If a blooded
character is killed via bloodtheft, and somehow resurrected or reincarnated (I
know, this would be extremely rare) what do you do? Give him his bloodline
back or make him a commoner? This came up once in my campaign and I told the
unlucky PC he needed to steal it back, now sadly much reduced! That's because
I'm a cruel bastard. Incidently, it was another PC that did it. It didn't do
much for party unity. ;)
- -Dustin "Bloodthief" Evermore
P.S. try not to stick me, too, in the process.
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03-24-1999, 01:13 AM #18Jim CooperGuest
Even MORE about bloodlines!
DKEvermore@aol.com wrote:
> A BLOODLINE!!! GET HIM!!! I'll hold 'im down, somebody quick stick 'im! I never seen one o' them cool displays when a scion of Brenna kicks off!<
HAH! You'll never get me! Haven't you ever heard the tales that those
descendants of Brenna can never be caught, not even by magic!?!
> This came up once in my campaign and I told the unlucky PC he needed to steal it back, now sadly much reduced!<
It was me as the DM, I would do the same thing. Thats because I, too,
am a:
> a cruel bastard.<
Like you said! ;D
> Incidently, it was another PC that did it. It didn't do much for party unity. ;)<
Cool - I'm not alone in psychotic PC parties ...
Cheers,
Me :)
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03-24-1999, 04:32 AM #19JNeighb934@aol.coGuest
Even MORE about bloodlines!
In a message dated 03/23/99 15:16:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DKEvermore@aol.com writes:
>
I would say the character is no longer a scion because his bloodline has been
stripped from him via the bloodtheft. He no longer possesses a bloodline.
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03-24-1999, 07:17 AM #20Daniel McSorleyGuest
Even MORE about bloodlines!
From: JNeighb934@aol.com
>If a blooded
>character is killed via bloodtheft, and somehow resurrected or reincarnated
>(I know, this would be extremely rare) what do you back or make him a commoner?
The book of Priestcraft stated that if a scion is ever killed and then
somehow brought back, their bloodline is gone (not even a 0 I think). Even
if they were the ruler of a kingdom in life, they couldn't then rule it
since they had no bloodline. In fact, if they ever did gain a new bloodline
somehow, they still couldn't regain their old kingdom because the land would
reject them.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu
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