Results 1 to 10 of 20
Thread: Nature of Magic: Is this logica
-
02-24-1999, 03:43 AM #1Craig DalrympleGuest
Nature of Magic: Is this logica
- -----Original Message-----
From: Olesens
To: BR List
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 4:38 PM
Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Nature of Magic: Is this logical?
>My question: Would it be logical to allow a mage from another plane to
>cast only lesser magic? Note that my reason/explanation for not
>allowing all spells is that Cerilian wizards "mine the mebhaighl" while
>other wizards get it from the land (DS) or the god of magic (FR). Would
>it make sense if I said that the Shadow World screens off True Magic
>from the "conduit" of magical power the off-world mage draws from his
>homeworld?
>
I would say that mages from other planes should have full access to
the magics they already had. Here are my reasons:
1. Their magics are different, as you said. Their source is different,
everything about it is different save for the result. I would even say
that their VSM components are all different mostly. This would
therefore
limit any such planehopping wizard to casting only the spells in
his travelling book. Any future spells would either have to come
through
research, or converting to "Cerilian" spells. The process of doing
this might cause him to "forget" the old style and become normal
lesser magic casting wizard, which begs the question "why do this?"
2. The Lost, or the 13 servants of Azrai, or whomever they are all learned
magic stright from the deity himself. They existed BEFORE bloodlines.
So did non blooded elven wizards. Obviously there is a way for any
common man to mine the magics of this world; the resident humans of
Cerilia have not discovered this breakthrough though. (now wouldn't
that make for a campaign side story??). As such, any wizard who
already knows how to mine the mebhaighl of his own world would
do so out of instinct even on Cerilia. This assumes that all worlds
have their own version of mebhaighl, but that's not too much of a
stretch, especially in Dark Sun.
-
02-24-1999, 03:53 AM #2darkstarGuest
Nature of Magic: Is this logica
Craig Dalrymple wrote:
>
> 2. The Lost, or the 13 servants of Azrai, or whomever they are all learned
> magic stright from the deity himself. They existed BEFORE bloodlines.
> So did non blooded elven wizards. Obviously there is a way for any
> common man to mine the magics of this world; the resident humans of
> Cerilia have not discovered this breakthrough though. (now wouldn't
> that make for a campaign side story??). As such, any wizard who
> already knows how to mine the mebhaighl of his own world would
> do so out of instinct even on Cerilia. This assumes that all worlds
> have their own version of mebhaighl, but that's not too much of a
> stretch, especially in Dark Sun.
I have always thought that the Lost were able to cast magic because
Azrai gave them part of his power (ie gave them a bloodline). This
enabled them to access the power of true magic. If there had been a way
to cast true magic without bloodlines then it would have been discovered
by now. After all, there were a lot of lesser mages around experimenting
with new ways of casting magic. If it had been possibly for a commoner
to cast true magic then it would have already been found. This means
that it isn't possible and any none Cerillian wizard who shows up, can't
cast any spells not normally allowed to magicians.
Actually I personally wouldn't allow a foriegn wizard to cast any spells
at all, at least not until he had spent some time on Aebrynis and
learned how magicians cast their spells.
- --
Ian Hoskins
e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss
ICQ: 2938300 AIM: IHoskins
-
02-24-1999, 04:13 AM #3Daniel McSorleyGuest
Nature of Magic: Is this logica
From: Craig Dalrymple
>I would say that mages from other planes should have full access to
>the magics they already had. Here are my reasons:
>
>1. Their magics are different, as you said. Their source is different,
> everything about it is different save for the result. I would even say
> that their VSM components are all different mostly. This would
>therefore
> limit any such planehopping wizard to casting only the spells in
> his travelling book. Any future spells would either have to come
>through
> research, or converting to "Cerilian" spells. The process of doing
> this might cause him to "forget" the old style and become normal
> lesser magic casting wizard, which begs the question "why do this?"
>
If the source of his magic is extraplanar, I would rule it cut off by the
Shadow World while he was on Cerilia.
>2. The Lost, or the 13 servants of Azrai, or whomever they are all learned
> magic stright from the deity himself. They existed BEFORE bloodlines.
> So did non blooded elven wizards. Obviously there is a way for any
> common man to mine the magics of this world; the resident humans of
> Cerilia have not discovered this breakthrough though. (now wouldn't
> that make for a campaign side story??). As such, any wizard who
> already knows how to mine the mebhaighl of his own world would
> do so out of instinct even on Cerilia. This assumes that all worlds
> have their own version of mebhaighl, but that's not too much of a
> stretch, especially in Dark Sun.
>
The Lost received some of Azrai's power into themselves, they were the
first blooded people, if you ask me.
The elves have a link to the land already, the same as the dragons,
giants (IMC), and gods. The blooded get this connection from their godly
heritage. The elves didn't need to get it, they _had_ it.
I would say any non-Cerilian wizard could be a magician at best.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~mcsorley/
-
02-24-1999, 12:47 PM #4Craig DalrympleGuest
Nature of Magic: Is this logica
- -----Original Message-----
From: darkstar
>I have always thought that the Lost were able to cast magic because
>Azrai gave them part of his power (ie gave them a bloodline). This
>enabled them to access the power of true magic
Everyone seems to assume that the Lost were given a bloodline by
Azrai. Though this is a popular notion, it is not necessarily the truth,
though it can be for your worlds. This leaves open the door that they
were NOT blooded. Heck if you look in the Magian's description, he
was already a lich before coming to the continent of Cerilia and
stealing a bloodline. If necessary I will quote this after work today ;)
Thus via the Magian, we know that the lost were NOT blooded.
This implies that he just knew how to cast the true magic, and that Azrai
(remember he's the god of Pride, in himself) would never be highly likely to
just give somebody a shot of deific energy IMHO.
>If there had been a way
>to cast true magic without bloodlines then it would have been discovered
>by now.
The Elves found a way. To the eyes of man the elves and their magics are
mysterious, so they must come from some greater link to the land that the
elves have and man does not. I treat this as the humans superstitions. Magic
has replaced science IMC. Someday a human wizard without a bloodline will
discover how to cast true magic. He will overcome the mental block that all
non-blooded wizards have. This will essentially cause a Renisance in the
world for magic. I never inted to let this happen as I like the rugged magic
system in use, but it seems a natural path to me.
Craig
-
02-24-1999, 12:54 PM #5Mark A VandermeulenGuest
Nature of Magic: Is this logica
On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Olesens wrote:
> My question: Would it be logical to allow a mage from another plane to
> cast only lesser magic? Note that my reason/explanation for not
> allowing all spells is that Cerilian wizards "mine the mebhaighl" while
> other wizards get it from the land (DS) or the god of magic (FR). Would
> it make sense if I said that the Shadow World screens off True Magic
> from the "conduit" of magical power the off-world mage draws from his
> homeworld?
That is exactly what I would do. Lesser magic is the magic that can be
cast without the godly connection to the mebheighl. Actually, I would
probably give Elminster a roll for a "wild effect" of some kind each time
he tried to cast one of his "lesser magic" spells he has memorized until
he gets the hang of handling mebheighl-driven spells, which probably
function in subtly different ways than the well-behaved Weave. Over time
he would get over this (perhaps an INT-4 check each time he casts the
spell; if successful, he can cast that spell w/o problem next time). But
he would NEVER be able to cast greater magic unless he somehow aquired a
bloodline. And even then I would probably make him reroll for
chance-to-learn his spells, because greater magic is even more different
from Faerun-style magic than lesser magic is.
That said, I DON'T know if your "Shadow World-screening" idea is really
necessary. If that is how inter-planar magic casting occurs in your
conception of the multiverse, that's fine, and sound like it's probably
logically consistent to me. However, I would simply say that the Weave on
Faerun is a greatly "tamed-down" version of mebheighl that exists on that
sphere, that Mystara (or whoever) tamed it so that mere mortals could use
it automatically (or nearly automatically). In Cerilia, the mebheighl is
much less well-behaved, much harder to handle. After all, Aebrynnis has
had at least two earth-shattering events happen in its past. Not only
Deismaar, when the gods died and the earth may have absorbed at least some
of their "godstuff", but there's also that ancient cataclism that
supposedly sundered the Shadow World off from the prime material.
Hope it helps.
Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu
-
02-24-1999, 06:36 PM #6Mark A VandermeulenGuest
Nature of Magic: Is this logica
On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Craig Dalrymple wrote:
> Thus via the Magian, we know that the lost were NOT blooded.
> This implies that he just knew how to cast the true magic, and that Azrai
> (remember he's the god of Pride, in himself) would never be highly likely to
> just give somebody a shot of deific energy IMHO.
Well, the obvious counter to this is that Azrai granted some of his
followers bloodlines for "bragging rights." Sort of "my followers are more
powerful than your followers" kind of thing. Or perhaps Vorynn, who was
also a god of magic, afterall, had already done something like this for
his followers, and Azrai was just not willing to be outdone.
(Still, your arguments are sound, and if that's the way you wish to play
it, I have no problems. I'd be perfectly willing to play in such a game,
but if I'm DM, I'll play it the way I like.)
Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu
-
02-25-1999, 01:56 PM #7
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Location
- Nether-Netherland
- Posts
- 308
- Downloads
- 0
- Uploads
- 0
Nature of Magic: Is this logica
> If the source of his magic is extraplanar, I would rule it cut off by the
> Shadow World while he was on Cerilia.
A question related to that topic:
How "easy" is access to the Ephereal Plane and the Astral Plane from
Cerilia?
-
02-26-1999, 02:54 AM #8darkstarGuest
Nature of Magic: Is this logica
the Falcon wrote:
>
> > If the source of his magic is extraplanar, I would rule it cut off by the
> > Shadow World while he was on Cerilia.
>
> A question related to that topic:
>
> How "easy" is access to the Ephereal Plane and the Astral Plane from
> Cerilia?
>
Well in the Outer Plane accessory I am working on for Birthright
(http://members.xoom.com/ihoskins/book/) access to the Etheral plane is
almost impossible, while access to the Astral Plane is normal. That is
only one person view though.
- --
Ian Hoskins
e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss
ICQ: 2938300 AIM: IHoskins
-
02-26-1999, 11:58 AM #9
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Location
- Nether-Netherland
- Posts
- 308
- Downloads
- 0
- Uploads
- 0
Nature of Magic: Is this logica
> Well in the Outer Plane accessory I am working on for Birthright
> (http://members.xoom.com/ihoskins/book/) access to the Etheral plane is
> almost impossible, while access to the Astral Plane is normal. That is
> only one person view though.
So then what would an _oil_of_etherealness_ do in Cerilia? What about
_armor_of_etherealness_?
-
02-26-1999, 12:06 PM #10darkstarGuest
Nature of Magic: Is this logica
the Falcon wrote:
>
> So then what would an _oil_of_etherealness_ do in Cerilia? What about
> _armor_of_etherealness_?
>
Either they don't work, or they give you access to the shadow world so
all those nice monsters there can have a bite at you...
Actually what I meant by impossible to access was that there were no
portals to the Etheral Plane from Aebrynis or anything like that. I am
going to make it a sort of dream-like world of ghosts that exists part
way between Aebrynis and the Shadow world. It will also act as a barrier
between the two planes, to prevent all the undead wandering across. Of
course in some places the Etheral plane is especially thin or weak and
the distance between the real world and the shadow world become a lot
closer allowing undead to wander across at will.
I am still working on the details though....
- --
Ian Hoskins
e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss
ICQ: 2938300 AIM: IHoskins
Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Similar Threads
-
Commune with Nature
By Arjan in forum MainReplies: 0Last Post: 11-05-2011, 01:01 AM -
Power Of Nature
By Arjan in forum MainReplies: 0Last Post: 11-05-2011, 01:01 AM -
Knowledge (Nature)
By Sorontar in forum MainReplies: 0Last Post: 07-22-2008, 01:07 AM -
The Nature of Divinity in BR
By Birthright-L in forum The Royal LibraryReplies: 2Last Post: 09-03-2002, 05:41 PM -
Nature of Magic: Is this logical?
By Olesens in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999Replies: 0Last Post: 02-23-1999, 10:32 PM
Bookmarks