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  1. #11
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    I feel it`s my duty (long as he

    > Further, BR is the first setting that I have seen give any real
    > treatment to the human race besides saying "they're the dominant".

    It is indeed this aspect that made me and my players turn away from FR and
    delve into BR. Plus the facts that BR has a far better set atmosphere
    than FR will ever have with its anything-goes demeanor and that BR
    succeeds in providing a system that makes playing a PC ruler actually
    interesting, among other things.
    Nothing but praise... Well, except for the modules, of course. :)

    - the Falcon

  2. #12
    Eric L. Boyd
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    I feel it`s my duty (long as he

    Tim Nutting wrote:

    > My difficulty with FR has always been the extreme level of power that
    > seems to never do anything.

    This comment struck me as somewhat ironic given the number of people who
    complain that the Realms evolves too quickly and of the "excessive"
    number of "Realms-shattering events" they see. :-)

    In any event, to address your question: The world presented in the core
    material of the Realms lays out an environment in which there are
    numerous high-powered groups locked in a fierce detente with each other.
    The PCs have the opportunity to shine by careful navigation through
    those ever-skirmishing power groups, subtly shifting the status quo if
    they are skilled in their dealings with various NPCs.

    Is this the only way to play the Realms? No. Is this the only way to
    structure a "good" campaign? Of course not. However, it can be quite fun
    and give the players a chance to shine as heroes without feeling like
    they are the most powerful people on the continent.

    > I couldn't even tell you what the main branch of the human gene pool
    > is in Faerun.

    While it is not played up as much as in Birthright or Greyhawk, the
    Realms has numerous human groups whose migrations have crisscrossed the
    continent. Some of the ethnic groups of the core Realms which come to
    mind off the top of my head include:

    Tethen
    Calishite
    Chultan
    Turami
    Mulan
    Imaskari
    Neth
    Rashemi
    Rus
    Uthgardt
    Northmen
    Ffolk
    Ice Hunter
    Shaaran

    Although everyone has their likes and dislikes, one of the major
    attractions of the Realms for its fans is the depth of the material
    buried across various products. Just about any campaign tidbit you'd
    like to find is "in there," with much of it just barely hinted at and
    waiting to be developed by the DM. You just have to dig a little bit
    sometimes.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled BR discussion ...

    - --Eric, a longtime lurker

    - --

    Eric L. Boyd
    Unix Systems Group
    boyd@zk3.dec.com

  3. #13
    brandes
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    I feel it`s my duty (long as he

    >> Further, BR is the first setting that I have seen give any real
    >> treatment to the human race besides saying "they're the dominant".
    >
    >It is indeed this aspect that made me and my players turn away from FR and
    >delve into BR. Plus the facts that BR has a far better set atmosphere
    >than FR will ever have with its anything-goes demeanor and that BR
    >succeeds in providing a system that makes playing a PC ruler actually
    >interesting, among other things.
    >Nothing but praise... Well, except for the modules, of course. :)
    >
    > - the Falcon


    Okay, this is exactly the kind of argument I was trying to STOP when I began
    this thread. "Plus the facts that BR has a far better set atmosphere than
    FR will ever have?" Um, gee, that sounds like a well-reasoned argument.
    We're glad that you made up your mind on this, but I think many of us would
    like to hear something a little more debatable.
    Just so you know, FR was not designed for rulership. Neither was the rest
    of AD&D. On the other hand, you may have seen my post several days ago with
    advice on how to be a wise "regent" in Shadowdale.
    Brandes

  4. #14
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    I feel it`s my duty (long as he

    > Okay, this is exactly the kind of argument I was trying to STOP when I began
    > this thread. "Plus the facts that BR has a far better set atmosphere than
    > FR will ever have?" Um, gee, that sounds like a well-reasoned argument.
    > We're glad that you made up your mind on this, but I think many of us would
    > like to hear something a little more debatable.
    > Just so you know, FR was not designed for rulership. Neither was the rest
    > of AD&D. On the other hand, you may have seen my post several days ago with
    > advice on how to be a wise "regent" in Shadowdale.

    OK, what I mean by "a far better set atmosphere" is that while BR has a
    very specific set of spells, monsters, magical items, etc. for it's
    gameworld (which IMHO greatly defines the atmosphere), the FR can't seem
    to get enough of those (IMHO greatly blurring the atmosphere). I think
    the FR would greatly benefit from their contributers being more selective
    and a bit less generic.
    Better?

  5. #15
    brandes
    Guest

    I feel it`s my duty (long as he

    >OK, what I mean by "a far better set atmosphere" is that while BR has a
    >very specific set of spells, monsters, magical items, etc. for it's
    >gameworld (which IMHO greatly defines the atmosphere), the FR can't seem
    >to get enough of those (IMHO greatly blurring the atmosphere). I think
    >the FR would greatly benefit from their contributers being more selective
    >and a bit less generic.
    >Better?


    Very much so. I argue that FR does in fact have specific sets of spells . .
    . defined along the lines of power groups. As was recently observed on this
    mailing list, FR is a world consumed by conflict between mighty
    organizations, nations, and societies. (Harpers, Red Wizards, Zhentarim,
    Cult of the Dragon, Knights of the Shield, Twisted Rune, Heralds, Iron
    Throne, etc.) Several of these groups have spells that are unique to them
    and those they train. For example, the Seven Sisters have their own
    sourcebook. This sourcebook has a full chapter on the spells unique to the
    Seven Sisters and a select few others. The Red Wizards have their own
    collection of spells, as do the Zhentarim, Cult of the Dragon, and others.
    Occasionally, these spells leak out of their security by means of a lost or
    stolen spellbook.
    I can't make much of an argument regarding magic items, except that
    artifacts are often identified with a specific group (such as the Crown of
    Horns, which was defeated by Khelben, and the combination artifacts, the
    Death Moon Orb and Thaksoril's Seat, which are controlled b Szass Tam.)
    Does this help?

    Brandes

    PS. Something I'm curious about: Have you personally played FR
    extensively, or are you going on stereotype? I'm not making an accusation
    or anything; I'm just curious.

  6. #16
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    I feel it`s my duty (long as he

    > Very much so. I argue that FR does in fact have specific sets of spells . .
    > . defined along the lines of power groups. As was recently observed on this
    > mailing list, FR is a world consumed by conflict between mighty
    > organizations, nations, and societies. (Harpers, Red Wizards, Zhentarim,
    > Cult of the Dragon, Knights of the Shield, Twisted Rune, Heralds, Iron
    > Throne, etc.) Several of these groups have spells that are unique to them
    > and those they train. For example, the Seven Sisters have their own
    > sourcebook. This sourcebook has a full chapter on the spells unique to the
    > Seven Sisters and a select few others. The Red Wizards have their own
    > collection of spells, as do the Zhentarim, Cult of the Dragon, and others.
    > Occasionally, these spells leak out of their security by means of a lost or
    > stolen spellbook.

    Well, I can't argue that FR has some pretty cool spells and magical
    items. Some neat monsters as well. But a lot of it just lacks common
    ground. They just don't share any connections. Plus, about any monster
    from any other world (save perhaps Athas and Cerilia) can be found on the
    Realms. Sometimes, it seems to me that FR just wants to have it all, but
    ends up with a horribly mismatched collection of oddities, if you know
    what I mean.

    > I can't make much of an argument regarding magic items, except that
    > artifacts are often identified with a specific group (such as the Crown of
    > Horns, which was defeated by Khelben, and the combination artifacts, the
    > Death Moon Orb and Thaksoril's Seat, which are controlled b Szass Tam.)
    > Does this help?

    I'd like to quote something from Spelljammer here (I don't have the books
    with me, so please me excuse me for any lost words):
    "The fact that groundlings aren't hip-deep in artifacts is that someone
    has found a use for them: artifurnaces."
    Artifurnaces aside, I think this quote pretty much says what I'm gainin
    at.

    > PS. Something I'm curious about: Have you personally played FR
    > extensively, or are you going on stereotype? I'm not making an accusation
    > or anything; I'm just curious.

    I've played FR pretty extensively as a DM. My players more or less share
    my opionion on the matter. We still plan to return to FR some time, but
    not in the near future. I'm not sayin FR is a bad setting. It's just far
    to all-encompassing for its own good.

    - the Falcon

  7. #17
    Gwaeron@aol.co
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    I feel it`s my duty (long as he

    In a message dated 3/2/99 7:58:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
    m.m.richert@twi.tudelft.nl writes:

    > I'd like to quote something from Spelljammer here (I don't have the books
    > with me, so please me excuse me for any lost words):
    > "The fact that groundlings aren't hip-deep in artifacts is that someone
    > has found a use for them: artifurnaces."
    > Artifurnaces aside, I think this quote pretty much says what I'm gainin
    > at.

    Hmm, I could be mistaken, but that statement isn't totally correct. I'm
    nowhere close to my books, but you never mentioned anything else about the
    furnaces either. They aren't all that common, and to be honest, I've never
    seen that quote in any shape, unless its in one of the few supplements I don't
    have. Do you happen to know which one it is from?

  8. #18
    brandes
    Guest

    I feel it`s my duty (long as he

    >I've played FR pretty extensively as a DM. My players more or less share
    >my opionion on the matter. We still plan to return to FR some time, but
    >not in the near future. I'm not sayin FR is a bad setting. It's just far
    >to all-encompassing for its own good.
    >
    > - the Falcon


    Well, FR isn't the only setting that TSR has produced that has attempted to
    be a genereic world with simply an "undercurrent" to differentiate it from
    others. I'm thinking specifically Greyhawk and Mystara here . . .
    remembering that the geography of Greyhawk is REALLY all-encompassing, with
    essentially everything thrown randomly together. Maybe it works; I haven't
    played Greyhawk (GH?!?) but have seen a variety of maps and descriptions.

    Brandes

  9. #19
    Samuel Weiss
    Guest

    I feel it`s my duty (long as he

    >I'm thinking specifically Greyhawk and Mystara here . . .
    remembering that the geography of Greyhawk is REALLY all-encompassing, with
    essentially everything thrown randomly together. Maybe it works; I haven't
    played Greyhawk (GH?!?) but have seen a variety of maps and descriptions.

    Brandes<

    I think you have the two mixed up.
    Mystara is an incredible random hodgepodge.
    Greyhawk, while apparently geologically impossible, is not that random. It
    is very wide ranging though. Although most of the action is centered on a
    rather homogenous cultural region.

    Samwise

  10. #20
    Pieter Sleijpen
    Guest

    I feel it`s my duty (long as he

    Samuel Weiss wrote:
    >
    > >I'm thinking specifically Greyhawk and Mystara here . . .
    > remembering that the geography of Greyhawk is REALLY all-encompassing, with
    > essentially everything thrown randomly together. Maybe it works; I haven't
    > played Greyhawk (GH?!?) but have seen a variety of maps and descriptions.
    >
    > Brandes<
    >
    > I think you have the two mixed up.
    > Mystara is an incredible random hodgepodge.
    > Greyhawk, while apparently geologically impossible, is not that random. It
    > is very wide ranging though. Although most of the action is centered on a
    > rather homogenous cultural region.
    >
    > Samwise

    Ever taken a look at Europe in the 14th century, that was a real mix bag
    of different cultures, just like Mystara and often a simple border could
    mean that difference. It is this large difference in cultures that makes
    Mystara unique, while FR is one large bland. Lets be honest, a citizen
    of Waterdeep would not have any problems with culture in Cormyr, while
    both nations are very far from each other. A citizen of Darokin, would
    have a lot more trouble in Thyatis or even Karameikos.

    Pieter Sleijpen

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