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  1. #1
    brandes
    Guest

    I feel it`s my duty

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    Hey subscribers:
    The ceaseless attacks on Forgotten Realms are really unnecessary. The =
    fact that you still play a campaign world that the creators gave up on =
    states well enough that you prefer this world.
    It's my duty to defend FR, the most popular campaign world, well, ever, =
    against libel. The main complaint: it has too much magic. Gee, let me =
    think, that's the DM's decision completely. If magic gets out of hand =
    in ANY campaign, there's only one person to blame. As a corollary to =
    that statement, I had a worse problem with magic in my Birthright =
    campaign than I do in my current FR campaign. The problem raced from =
    the fact that the major NPC's boast some outrageous magic for a world =
    that pretends to be low-magic. In my FR campaign, there is no real =
    danger of my PC's deciding to go hunt down an NPC, even an evil one, =
    just to take his sword +5 (or whatever). This happened in BR. Aramis, =
    a 5th level thief, made quick work of Guilder Kalien because he wanted =
    the sword +1. He broke into Kal-Saitharak (sp?) and, at 7th level, took =
    Bloodsilver and Prince Fhilaraene (sp?) from the Gorgon's throne room, =
    despite massive security. What I'm saying is that the BR designers just =
    sort of threw everything out there. Most NPC's of ANY note have serious =
    magic.
    The other aspect of any arguments claiming BR to be low-magic is that =
    wizards can't do much as regents (true) and aren't as dominant as FR =
    wizards. As to the second part, bullfeathers. Take a peek at sources =
    like the Blood Enemies sourcebook. Now tell me that wizards aren't as =
    dominant. Hmmm . . . Magian? Gorgon? White Witch? Banshegh? Rhoube? =
    Chimera? Shall I continue?
    I don't doubt that someone will respond to this post with "Hey, shut up =
    about FR, this is a BR mailing list." I will qualify my post by saying =
    that I just want everyone else to stop trashing FR in their posts. =
    That's really the only reason I am writing this.
    Balthasar
    brandes@gateway.net=20

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    Hey subscribers:
    The ceaseless attacks on Forgotten =
    Realms are=20
    really unnecessary.  The fact that you still play a campaign world =
    that the=20
    creators gave up on states well enough that you prefer this =
    world.
    It's my duty to defend FR, the most =
    popular=20
    campaign world, well, ever, against libel.  The main =
    complaint:  it=20
    has too much magic.  Gee, let me think, that's the DM's decision=20
    completely.  If magic gets out of hand in ANY campaign, there's =
    only one=20
    person to blame.  As a corollary to that statement, I had a worse =
    problem=20
    with magic in my Birthright campaign than I do in my current FR =
    campaign. =20
    The problem raced from the fact that the major NPC's boast some =
    outrageous magic=20
    for a world that pretends to be low-magic.  In my FR campaign, =
    there is no=20
    real danger of my PC's deciding to go hunt down an NPC, even an evil =
    one, just=20
    to take his sword +5 (or whatever).  This happened in BR.  =
    Aramis, a=20
    5th level thief, made quick work of Guilder Kalien because he wanted the =
    sword=20
    +1.  He broke into Kal-Saitharak (sp?) and, at 7th level, took =
    Bloodsilver=20
    and Prince Fhilaraene (sp?) from the Gorgon's throne room, despite =
    massive=20
    security.  What I'm saying is that the BR designers just sort of =
    threw=20
    everything out there.  Most NPC's of ANY note have serious=20
    magic.
    The other aspect of any arguments =
    claiming BR to=20
    be low-magic is that wizards can't do much as regents (true) and aren't =
    as=20
    dominant as FR wizards.  As to the second part, bullfeathers.  =
    Take a=20
    peek at sources like the Blood Enemies sourcebook.  Now tell me =
    that=20
    wizards aren't as dominant.  Hmmm . . . Magian?  Gorgon?  =
    White=20
    Witch?  Banshegh?  Rhoube?  Chimera?  Shall I=20
    continue?
    I don't doubt that someone will respond to this post =
    with=20
    "Hey, shut up about FR, this is a BR mailing list."  I =
    will=20
    qualify my post by saying that I just want everyone else to stop =
    trashing FR in=20
    their posts.  That's really the only reason I am writing =
    this.
    Balthasar
    brandes@gateway.net=20


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  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
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    I feel it`s my duty

    T├Ąm├Ą on moniosainen MIME-muotoinen viesti.

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    I don't doubt that someone will respond to this post with "Hey, shut =
    up about FR, this is a BR mailing list." I will qualify my post by =
    saying that I just want everyone else to stop trashing FR in their =
    posts. That's really the only reason I am writing this.
    =20
    Here! Here! If you cannot defend your favorite world except by =
    bashing another world, you aren't making any good impressions.
    =20
    ******************
    Aleksei Andrievski
    aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star
    aka Azure Star Dragon
    solmyr@kolumbus.fi
    http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html


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    I don't doubt that someone will respond to this =
    post with=20
    "Hey, shut up about FR, this is a BR mailing list."  =
    I will=20
    qualify my post by saying that I just want everyone else to stop =
    trashing FR=20
    in their posts.  That's really the only reason I am writing=20
    this.
     
    Here! Here! If you cannot defend =
    your=20
    favorite world except by bashing another world, you aren't making =
    any good=20
    impressions.
     
    ******************Aleksei=20
    Andrievskiaka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Staraka Azure =
    Star=20
    Dragonsolmyr@kolumbus.fiht=
    tp://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html

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  3. #3
    Ben
    Guest

    I feel it`s my duty

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    I think your own bad experiences with BR are the result of the same =
    DM mistakes you point out here. You let a 7th level thief break into =
    stony's throne room and get away with it? Shame on you...
    I'm not a big fan of FR myself--only because I don't like the feel =
    of the setting.
    That's my choice, and, no, I don't go around telling people that like it =
    that they're stupid. But I DO go around telling people that BR is a =
    better setting.

    =
    Ben
    -----Original Message-----
    From: brandes
    To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 5:06 PM
    Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - I feel it's my duty
    =20
    =20
    Hey subscribers:
    The ceaseless attacks on Forgotten Realms are really unnecessary. =
    The fact that you still play a campaign world that the creators gave up =
    on states well enough that you prefer this world.
    It's my duty to defend FR, the most popular campaign world, well, =
    ever, against libel. The main complaint: it has too much magic. Gee, =
    let me think, that's the DM's decision completely. If magic gets out of =
    hand in ANY campaign, there's only one person to blame. As a corollary =
    to that statement, I had a worse problem with magic in my Birthright =
    campaign than I do in my current FR campaign. The problem raced from =
    the fact that the major NPC's boast some outrageous magic for a world =
    that pretends to be low-magic. In my FR campaign, there is no real =
    danger of my PC's deciding to go hunt down an NPC, even an evil one, =
    just to take his sword +5 (or whatever). This happened in BR. Aramis, =
    a 5th level thief, made quick work of Guilder Kalien because he wanted =
    the sword +1. He broke into Kal-Saitharak (sp?) and, at 7th level, took =
    Bloodsilver and Prince Fhilaraene (sp?) from the Gorgon's throne room, =
    despite massive security. What I'm saying is that the BR designers just =
    sort of threw everything out there. Most NPC's of ANY note have serious =
    magic.
    The other aspect of any arguments claiming BR to be low-magic is =
    that wizards can't do much as regents (true) and aren't as dominant as =
    FR wizards. As to the second part, bullfeathers. Take a peek at =
    sources like the Blood Enemies sourcebook. Now tell me that wizards =
    aren't as dominant. Hmmm . . . Magian? Gorgon? White Witch? =
    Banshegh? Rhoube? Chimera? Shall I continue?
    I don't doubt that someone will respond to this post with "Hey, shut =
    up about FR, this is a BR mailing list." I will qualify my post by =
    saying that I just want everyone else to stop trashing FR in their =
    posts. That's really the only reason I am writing this.
    Balthasar
    brandes@gateway.net=20

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        I=20
    think your own bad experiences with BR are the result of the same DM =
    mistakes=20
    you point out here. You let a 7th level thief break into stony's throne =
    room and=20
    get away with it? Shame on you...
        I'm not a big fan of =
    FR=20
    myself--only because I don't like the feel of the =
    setting.
    That's =
    my choice,=20
    and, no, I don't go around telling people that like it that they're =
    stupid. But=20
    I DO go around telling people that BR is a better setting.
     
            &n bsp; &nbs=
    p;            &nbsp=
    ;        & nbsp;   =
            &n bsp;   &=
    nbsp;       &nb sp;   &n=
    bsp;       &nbs p;   &nb=
    sp;       =20
    Ben

    -----Original =
    Message-----From:=20
    brandes <brandes@gateway.net>To:=
    =20
    birthright@MPGN.COM =
    <birthright@MPGN.COM>Dat=
    e:=20
    Thursday, February 18, 1999 5:06 PMSubject: =
    [BIRTHRIGHT] - I=20
    feel it's my duty
    Hey subscribers:
    The ceaseless attacks on =
    Forgotten Realms=20
    are really unnecessary.  The fact that you still play a =
    campaign world=20
    that the creators gave up on states well enough that you prefer this =

    world.
    It's my duty to defend FR, the =
    most popular=20
    campaign world, well, ever, against libel.  The main =
    complaint: =20
    it has too much magic.  Gee, let me think, that's the DM's =
    decision=20
    completely.  If magic gets out of hand in ANY campaign, there's =
    only=20
    one person to blame.  As a corollary to that statement, I had a =
    worse=20
    problem with magic in my Birthright campaign than I do in my current =
    FR=20
    campaign.  The problem raced from the fact that the major NPC's =
    boast=20
    some outrageous magic for a world that pretends to be =
    low-magic.  In my=20
    FR campaign, there is no real danger of my PC's deciding to go hunt =
    down an=20
    NPC, even an evil one, just to take his sword +5 (or =
    whatever).  This=20
    happened in BR.  Aramis, a 5th level thief, made quick work of =
    Guilder=20
    Kalien because he wanted the sword +1.  He broke into =
    Kal-Saitharak=20
    (sp?) and, at 7th level, took Bloodsilver and Prince Fhilaraene =
    (sp?) from=20
    the Gorgon's throne room, despite massive security.  What I'm =
    saying is=20
    that the BR designers just sort of threw everything out there.  =
    Most=20
    NPC's of ANY note have serious magic.
    The other aspect of any =
    arguments claiming=20
    BR to be low-magic is that wizards can't do much as regents (true) =
    and=20
    aren't as dominant as FR wizards.  As to the second part,=20
    bullfeathers.  Take a peek at sources like the Blood Enemies=20
    sourcebook.  Now tell me that wizards aren't as dominant.  =
    Hmmm .=20
    . . Magian?  Gorgon?  White Witch?  Banshegh? =20
    Rhoube?  Chimera?  Shall I continue?
    I don't doubt that someone will respond to this =
    post with=20
    "Hey, shut up about FR, this is a BR mailing list."  =
    I will=20
    qualify my post by saying that I just want everyone else to stop =
    trashing FR=20
    in their posts.  That's really the only reason I am writing=20
    this.
    Balthasar
    brandes@gateway.net=20


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  4. #4
    Jeff Dunnett
    Guest

    I feel it`s my duty

    I agree with what your saying. I myself have played in campaigns in
    FR with more than one DM and let me tell you who the DM is makes a
    world of difference. It's up to everyone to decide what worlds they
    like and don't like. Most people on this list probably agree that
    they like more then one world. They probably each like the world's
    they do for a specific reason.

    Jeff




    - ---Ben wrote:
    >
    > I think your own bad experiences with BR are the result of the
    same DM mistakes you point out here. You let a 7th level thief break
    into stony's throne room and get away with it? Shame on you...
    > I'm not a big fan of FR myself--only because I don't like the
    feel of the setting.
    > That's my choice, and, no, I don't go around telling people that
    like it that they're stupid. But I DO go around telling people that BR
    is a better setting.
    >
    >
    Ben
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: brandes
    > To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    > Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 5:06 PM
    > Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - I feel it's my duty
    >
    >
    > Hey subscribers:
    > The ceaseless attacks on Forgotten Realms are really
    unnecessary. The fact that you still play a campaign world that the
    creators gave up on states well enough that you prefer this world.
    > It's my duty to defend FR, the most popular campaign world,
    well, ever, against libel. The main complaint: it has too much
    magic. Gee, let me think, that's the DM's decision completely. If
    magic gets out of hand in ANY campaign, there's only one person to
    blame. As a corollary to that statement, I had a worse problem with
    magic in my Birthright campaign than I do in my current FR campaign.
    The problem raced from the fact that the major NPC's boast some
    outrageous magic for a world that pretends to be low-magic. In my FR
    campaign, there is no real danger of my PC's deciding to go hunt down
    an NPC, even an evil one, just to take his sword +5 (or whatever).
    This happened in BR. Aramis, a 5th level thief, made quick work of
    Guilder Kalien because he wanted the sword +1. He broke into
    Kal-Saitharak (sp?) and, at 7th level, took Bloodsilver and Prince
    Fhilaraene (sp?) from the Gorgon's throne room, despite massive
    security. What I'm saying is that the BR designers just sort of threw
    everything out there. Most NPC's of ANY note have serious magic.
    > The other aspect of any arguments claiming BR to be low-magic is
    that wizards can't do much as regents (true) and aren't as dominant as
    FR wizards. As to the second part, bullfeathers. Take a peek at
    sources like the Blood Enemies sourcebook. Now tell me that wizards
    aren't as dominant. Hmmm . . . Magian? Gorgon? White Witch?
    Banshegh? Rhoube? Chimera? Shall I continue?
    > I don't doubt that someone will respond to this post with "Hey,
    shut up about FR, this is a BR mailing list." I will qualify my post
    by saying that I just want everyone else to stop trashing FR in their
    posts. That's really the only reason I am writing this.
    > Balthasar
    > brandes@gateway.net
    >









    ┬*┬*┬* I
    think your own bad experiences with BR are the result of the same DM
    mistakes
    you point out here. You let a 7th level thief break into stony's
    throne room and
    get away with it? Shame on you...
    ┬*┬*┬* I'm not a big fan of FR
    myself--only because I don't like the feel of the
    setting.
    That's my
    choice,
    and, no, I don't go around telling people that like it that they're
    stupid. But
    I DO go around telling people that BR is a better setting.
    ┬*
    ┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* ┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* ┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* ┬*┬*┬*┬*

    Ben

    -----Original
    Message-----From:
    brandes To:
    birthright@MPGN.COM
    Date:
    Thursday, February 18, 1999 5:06 PMSubject:
    [BIRTHRIGHT] - I
    feel it's my duty
    Hey subscribers:
    The ceaseless attacks on Forgotten
    Realms
    are really unnecessary.┬* The fact that you still play a campaign
    world
    that the creators gave up on states well enough that you prefer
    this
    world.
    It's my duty to defend FR, the
    most popular
    campaign world, well, ever, against libel.┬* The main complaint:┬*
    it has too much magic.┬* Gee, let me think, that's the DM's decision
    completely.┬* If magic gets out of hand in ANY campaign, there's
    only
    one person to blame.┬* As a corollary to that statement, I had a
    worse
    problem with magic in my Birthright campaign than I do in my
    current FR
    campaign.┬* The problem raced from the fact that the major NPC's
    boast
    some outrageous magic for a world that pretends to be low-magic.┬*
    In my
    FR campaign, there is no real danger of my PC's deciding to go
    hunt down an
    NPC, even an evil one, just to take his sword +5 (or whatever).┬*
    This
    happened in BR.┬* Aramis, a 5th level thief, made quick work of
    Guilder
    Kalien because he wanted the sword +1.┬* He broke into Kal-Saitharak
    (sp?) and, at 7th level, took Bloodsilver and Prince Fhilaraene
    (sp?) from
    the Gorgon's throne room, despite massive security.┬* What I'm
    saying is
    that the BR designers just sort of threw everything out there.┬*
    Most
    NPC's of ANY note have serious magic.
    The other aspect of any arguments
    claiming
    BR to be low-magic is that wizards can't do much as regents (true)
    and
    aren't as dominant as FR wizards.┬* As to the second part,
    bullfeathers.┬* Take a peek at sources like the Blood Enemies
    sourcebook.┬* Now tell me that wizards aren't as dominant.┬* Hmmm .
    . . Magian?┬* Gorgon?┬* White Witch?┬* Banshegh?┬*
    Rhoube?┬* Chimera?┬* Shall I continue?
    I don't doubt that someone will respond to this
    post with
    "Hey, shut up about FR, this is a BR mailing list."┬* I will
    qualify my post by saying that I just want everyone else to stop
    trashing FR
    in their posts.┬* That's really the only reason I am writing
    this.
    Balthasar
    brandes@gateway.net



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  5. #5
    Tim Nutting
    Guest

    I feel it`s my duty

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    The ceaseless attacks on Forgotten Realms are really unnecessary. =
    The fact that you still play a campaign world that the creators gave up =
    on states well enough that you prefer this world.
    Yep. 100%. FR is fun, and has it's place, but to a mature and more =
    worldly role-player, Cerilia has it all. Playing FR is like reading the =
    Darksword Chronicles, or something. Everybody's got magic, even the =
    farmers...
    It's my duty to defend FR, the most popular campaign world, well, =
    ever, against libel.

    Choose "slander" instead. Libel is infringement on creative rights.
    The main complaint: it has too much magic. Gee, let me think, =
    that's the DM's decision completely.

    And kill Elminster while your at it, too. :) In defense, tho, it's not =
    all the DMs fault. Ever try playing with other FR DMs? Want to hear a =
    DM whine? Change the world he DMs when you run it...

    In Cerilia there are SOME very powerful mages. In Faerun, the are LOTS =
    of VERY POWERFUL mages. No on in BR approaches 30th level... That the =
    magic is concentrated in those who hold power is not outrageous or =
    rediculous, but aren't you the least bit depressed when your players say =
    "oh, another sword +2".

    To me Baron Gavin Tael's Iron Guard is perhapst he most fearsome group =
    of soldiers in all Anuire. They are tough, militant, aggressive, and =
    brutal, and they get plate & mail for free. They don't hold a candle to =
    a standard Purple Dragons, who average 3rd to 6th level with a 7th level =
    captain and a wizard of 4th + traveling along for kicks. Further, each =
    wizard is armed with two wands (don't those cost CON points to make? =
    What's it cost to get folks to voluntarily sacrifice so much life =
    energy?) Compare this to the awsome might of 10 men on of 1st to 2nd =
    level led by a 4th level captain, and their "magic" is a load of =
    crossbows. Yes, I can change FR all I want, but... I don't want to. I =
    take out the Purple Dragons, I have to take out the very infrastructure =
    of Azoun and Cormyr... I don't have time for that.
    If magic gets out of hand in ANY campaign, there's only one person =
    to blame. As a corollary to that statement, I had a worse problem with =
    magic in my Birthright campaign than I do in my current FR campaign.

    "Gee, let me think, that's the DM's decision completely."
    The problem raced from the fact that the major NPC's boast some =
    outrageous magic for a world that pretends to be low-magic. In my FR =
    campaign, there is no real danger of my PC's deciding to go hunt down an =
    NPC, even an evil one, just to take his sword +5 (or whatever). This =
    happened in BR.

    Why? And how does one's foe being Evil excuse a deed? Last I looked =
    LG, CG, and LN did not use the ends to justify the means.
    Aramis, a 5th level thief, made quick work of Guilder Kalien because =
    he wanted the sword +1. He broke into Kal-Saitharak (sp?)=20
    and, at 7th level, took Bloodsilver and Prince Fhilaraene (sp?) from =
    the Gorgon's throne room, despite massive security.

    Your idea of "massive security" and mine must differ. I guess your 7th =
    level theif could walk into Elminster's study unscathed too, right? =
    IMC, you don't get into Battlewaite without invitaion. If you do, it's =
    through the catacombs, and they make Undermountain look like Disneyland. =
    I outright murdered my last party of foolish 12th level+ who tried to =
    find Halastar's Horde. If you don't want them to have it, kill them.
    What I'm saying is that the BR designers just sort of threw =
    everything out there.

    I take serious issue with that kind of slander. A practiced political =
    eye shows that to be entirely untrue. Every realm has an interaction =
    with every other realm. If I may ask, just how does the Moonsea relate =
    to Shadowdale, except via the Zhentarim?
    Most NPC's of ANY note have serious magic.

    As it should be. Power attracts power. And yet by the time a party =
    reached 9th level under my FR game (using standard goodies and =
    adventures) I had characters with more magic than any regent of Cerilia.
    The other aspect of any arguments claiming BR to be low-magic is =
    that wizards can't do much as regents (true) and aren't as dominant as =
    FR wizards. As to the second part, bullfeathers. Take a peek at =
    sources like the Blood Enemies sourcebook. Now tell me that wizards =
    aren't as dominant. Hmmm . . . Magian? Gorgon? White Witch? =
    Banshegh? Rhoube? Chimera? Shall I continue?

    Halastair, Khelban, Elminster, Red Wizards, Simbul, Tessaril, =
    Vangerdahast... . Okay... Tael, Swordwraith, Raenech, Diem, =
    Avan, Tuornen, Boeruine, the Mhor, Dhoesone, Roesone, Aglondier (only =
    3rd level!). Balance it out my friend. Compare the number of realms =
    ruled by warriors and "action" types to the wizards. There is not a =
    single nation where the ruling class is all wizards (ala Thay). =20

    A short list of lands not ruled by wizards: Roesone, Aerenwe, Osoerde, =
    Ghoere, Diemed, Endier, Avanil, Broesengae, Tuornen, Alamie, Mhoried, =
    Elinie, Coeranys, Markazor, Cariele, Talinie, Dhoesone, Stjorkdvik, =
    Rjuvik, Svinik, Halskapa, Jankaping, Hogunmark, Kvigmar, Kiergard, =
    Baruk-Azhik....

    In Eveningstar (Cormyr) Lord Tessaril Neverwinter helps her 7th level =
    guardsmen keep the peace by using ESP and insuch and ivading the minds =
    of newcomers to discover their intentions.... That waste of a mage =
    would never happen in cerilia, there's too few of them as it is, and =
    they can't figure out why magic dwindles (cut out the heart - i.e. the =
    elvish lands), and the body (magic) dies"

    Lastly, BE is a sourcebook about immortal creatures touched by the magic =
    of a dying god. In a realm that boasts something of about 50 less gods, =
    this is really an event.
    I don't doubt that someone will respond to this post with "Hey, shut =
    up about FR, this is a BR mailing list."

    I'm sorry you think so little of us.
    I will qualify my post by saying that I just want everyone else to =
    stop trashing FR in their posts. That's really the only reason I'm =
    writing this.

    Obviously I do not hesitate to say that I prefer Cerilia to Faerun. Any =
    world where I am able to create a rivalry between a 1st level priest =
    henchman and a 0-level local healer, because the healer is jealous the =
    other has been gifted with magic and she not, well, that's a world you =
    keep. You see, such an event was plausible, there was no difficulty =
    retaining suspension of disbielef, and that by sheer fact that the =
    author's pen made that possible.

    Due to it's cumbersuome nature and extremely unrealistic political =
    structure, FR will continue to get the bum wrap. I'm sorry that the =
    poor cousin gets put upon when compared to its superior, but...

    Tim Nutting

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    The ceaseless attacks on =
    Forgotten=20
    Realms are really unnecessary.  The fact that you still play a =
    campaign=20
    world that the creators gave up on states well enough that you =
    prefer this=20
    world.
    Yep.  100%.  FR is =
    fun, and has=20
    it's place, but to a mature and more worldly role-player, Cerilia has it =

    all.  Playing FR is like reading the Darksword Chronicles, or=20
    something.  Everybody's got magic, even the =
    farmers...

    It's my duty to defend FR, =
    the most=20
    popular campaign world, well, ever, against =
    libel.
     
    Choose "slander" instead.  Libel is=20
    infringement on creative rights.

      The main =
    complaint:  it=20
    has too much magic.  Gee, let me think, that's the DM's =
    decision=20
    completely. <snip>
     
    And kill Elminster while your =
    at it,=20
    too.  :)  In defense, tho, it's not all the DMs fault.  =
    Ever try=20
    playing with other FR DMs?  Want to hear a DM whine?  Change =
    the world=20
    he DMs when you run it...
     
    In Cerilia there are SOME very powerful mages.  =
    In=20
    Faerun, the are LOTS of VERY POWERFUL mages.  No on in BR =
    approaches 30th=20
    level...  That the magic is concentrated in those who hold power is =
    not=20
    outrageous or rediculous, but aren't you the least bit depressed when =
    your=20
    players say "oh, another sword +2".
     
    To me Baron Gavin Tael's Iron Guard is perhapst he =
    most=20
    fearsome group of soldiers in all Anuire.  They are tough, =
    militant,=20
    aggressive, and brutal, and they get plate & mail for free.  =
    They don't=20
    hold a candle to a standard Purple Dragons, who average 3rd to =
    6th=20
    level with a 7th level captain and a wizard of 4th + traveling along for =

    kicks.  Further, each wizard is armed with two wands =
    (don't those=20
    cost CON points to make?  What's it cost to get folks to =
    voluntarily=20
    sacrifice so much life energy?)  Compare this to the awsome might =
    of 10 men=20
    on of 1st to 2nd level led by a 4th level captain, and their =
    "magic"=20
    is a load of crossbows.  Yes, I can change FR all I want, but... I =
    don't=20
    want to.  I take out the Purple Dragons, I have to take out the =
    very=20
    infrastructure of Azoun and Cormyr...  I don't have time for=20
    that.

      If magic gets out =
    of hand in=20
    ANY campaign, there's only one person to blame.  As a corollary =
    to that=20
    statement, I had a worse problem with magic in my Birthright =
    campaign than I=20
    do in my current FR campaign.
     
    "Gee, let me think, that's the DM's decision=20
    completely."

      The problem raced =
    from the fact=20
    that the major NPC's boast some outrageous magic for a world that =
    pretends=20
    to be low-magic.  In my FR campaign, there is no real danger of =
    my PC's=20
    deciding to go hunt down an NPC, even an evil one, just to take his =
    sword +5=20
    (or whatever).  This happened in BR.
     
    Why?  And how does one's =
    foe being=20
    Evil excuse a deed?  Last I looked LG, CG, and LN did not use the =
    ends to=20
    justify the means.

    Aramis, a 5th level thief, =
    made quick=20
    work of Guilder Kalien because he wanted the sword +1.  He =
    broke into=20
    Kal-Saitharak (sp?)
    and, at 7th level, took =
    Bloodsilver=20
    and Prince Fhilaraene (sp?) from the Gorgon's throne room, despite =
    massive=20
    security.
     
    Your idea of "massive =
    security"=20
    and mine must differ.  I guess your 7th level theif could walk into =

    Elminster's study unscathed too, right?  IMC, you don't get into=20
    Battlewaite without invitaion.  If you do, it's through the =
    catacombs, and=20
    they make Undermountain look like Disneyland.  I outright murdered =
    my last=20
    party of foolish 12th level+ who tried to find Halastar's Horde.  =
    If you=20
    don't want them to have it, kill them.

    What I'm saying is that =
    the BR=20
    designers just sort of threw everything out =
    there.
     
    I take serious issue with that kind of =
    slander.  A=20
    practiced political eye shows that to be entirely untrue.  Every =
    realm has=20
    an interaction with every other realm.  If I may ask, just how does =
    the=20
    Moonsea relate to Shadowdale, except via the Zhentarim?

    Most NPC's=20
    of ANY note have serious magic.
     
    As it should be.  Power =
    attracts=20
    power.  And yet by the time a party reached 9th level under my FR =
    game=20
    (using standard goodies and adventures) I had characters with more magic =
    than=20
    any regent of Cerilia.

    The other aspect of any =
    arguments=20
    claiming BR to be low-magic is that wizards can't do much as regents =
    (true)=20
    and aren't as dominant as FR wizards.  As to the second part,=20
    bullfeathers.  Take a peek at sources like the Blood Enemies=20
    sourcebook.  Now tell me that wizards aren't as dominant.  =
    Hmmm .=20
    . . Magian?  Gorgon?  White Witch?  Banshegh? =20
    Rhoube?  Chimera?  Shall I continue?
     
    Halastair, Khelban, Elminster, =
    Red=20
    Wizards, Simbul, Tessaril, Vangerdahast...  <shrug>.  =
    Okay...=20
    Tael, Swordwraith, Raenech, Diem, Avan, Tuornen, Boeruine, the Mhor, =
    Dhoesone,=20
    Roesone, Aglondier (only 3rd level!).  Balance it out my =
    friend. =20
    Compare the number of realms ruled by warriors and "action" =
    types to=20
    the wizards.  There is not a single nation where the ruling class =
    is all=20
    wizards (ala Thay). 
     
    A short list of lands =
    not ruled=20
    by wizards:  Roesone, Aerenwe, Osoerde, Ghoere, Diemed, Endier, =
    Avanil,=20
    Broesengae, Tuornen, Alamie, Mhoried, Elinie, Coeranys, Markazor, =
    Cariele,=20
    Talinie, Dhoesone, Stjorkdvik, Rjuvik, Svinik, Halskapa, Jankaping, =
    Hogunmark,=20
    Kvigmar, Kiergard, Baruk-Azhik....
     
    In Eveningstar (Cormyr) Lord =
    Tessaril=20
    Neverwinter helps her 7th level guardsmen keep the peace by using ESP =
    and insuch=20
    and ivading the minds of newcomers to discover their =
    intentions....  That=20
    waste of a mage would never happen in cerilia, there's too few of them =
    as it is,=20
    and they can't figure out why magic dwindles (cut out the heart - i.e. =
    the=20
    elvish lands), and the body (magic) dies"
     
    Lastly, BE is a sourcebook =
    about immortal=20
    creatures touched by the magic of a dying god.  In a realm that =
    boasts=20
    something of about 50 less gods, this is really an =
    event.

    I don't doubt that someone will respond to this =
    post with=20
    "Hey, shut up about FR, this is a BR mailing=20
    list."
     
    I'm sorry you think so little of=20
    us.

    I will qualify my post by saying that I just =
    want everyone=20
    else to stop trashing FR in their posts.  That's really the =
    only reason=20
    I'm writing this.
     
    Obviously I do not hesitate to say that I prefer =
    Cerilia to=20
    Faerun.  Any world where I am able to create a rivalry between a =
    1st level=20
    priest henchman and a 0-level local healer, because the healer is =
    jealous the=20
    other has been gifted with magic and she not, well, that's a world you=20
    keep.  You see, such an event was plausible, there was no =
    difficulty=20
    retaining suspension of disbielef, and that by sheer fact that the =
    author's pen=20
    made that possible.
     
    Due to it's cumbersuome nature and extremely =
    unrealistic=20
    political structure, FR will continue to get the bum wrap.  I'm =
    sorry that=20
    the poor cousin gets put upon when compared to its superior, but...=20
    <shrug>
     
    Tim Nutting

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  6. #6
    Olesens
    Guest

    I feel it`s my duty

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    I REALLY do not like your suggestion of a Thayan-type culture in Djapar
    or Aduria. The only true wizards en masse exist within elven lands. An
    even then they tend to focus more on druidic type things over
    Invokations and stuff like that. IMO, Cerilia has the highest
    concentration of human wizards (since Djapar had no one at Diesmaar and
    very few Adurians survived). How the hell would you end up with a who
    has a whole ruling class based on wizards when only .99 % of the human
    population has even the talent (INT & Bloodline) to become true mages.
    Now assuming that only 1% of them choose to be wizards, that is .099% of
    the population. How do you come up with enough of them for a Thayan-type
    culture?

    > The Realms are more fully explored by far. Thayan culture,
    > focused so greatly around wizardly might, does not fit with
    > Anuire/Cormyr, Rjurik/Rashemen-Dales-Savage North, Vos/Great
    > Grey Land of Thar, Khinasi/Calimshan, or
    > Brechtur/Sembia-Waterdeep-Amn. Perhaps if the BR designers
    > had received their justly-deserved funding, Djapar or Aduria
    > might have included such a land.
    >

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    I REALLY do not like your suggestion of a Thayan-type culture in Djapar
    or Aduria.  The only true wizards en masse exist within elven lands. 
    An even then they tend to focus more on druidic type things over Invokations
    and stuff like that.  IMO, Cerilia has the highest concentration of
    human wizards (since Djapar had no one at Diesmaar and very few Adurians
    survived).  How the hell would you end up with a who has a whole ruling
    class based on wizards when only .99 % of the human population has even
    the talent (INT & Bloodline) to become true mages.  Now assuming
    that only 1% of them choose to be wizards, that is .099% of the population.
    How do you come up with enough of them for a Thayan-type culture?

    The
    Realms are more fully explored by far.  Thayan culture, focused so
    greatly around wizardly might, does not fit with Anuire/Cormyr, Rjurik/Rashemen-Dales-Savage
    North, Vos/Great Grey Land of Thar, Khinasi/Calimshan, or Brechtur/Sembia-Waterdeep-Amn. 
    Perhaps if the BR designers had received their justly-deserved funding,
    Djapar or Aduria might have included such a land.





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  7. #7
    brandes
    Guest

    I feel it`s my duty

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    I REALLY do not like your suggestion of a Thayan-type culture in =
    Djapar or Aduria. The only true wizards en masse exist within elven =
    lands. An even then they tend to focus more on druidic type things over =
    Invokations and stuff like that. IMO, Cerilia has the highest =
    concentration of human wizards (since Djapar had no one at Diesmaar and =
    very few Adurians survived). How the hell would you end up with a who =
    has a whole ruling class based on wizards when only .99 % of the human =
    population has even the talent (INT & Bloodline) to become true mages. =
    Now assuming that only 1% of them choose to be wizards, that is .099% of =
    the population. How do you come up with enough of them for a Thayan-type =
    culture?=20
    The Realms are more fully explored by far. Thayan culture, =
    focused so greatly around wizardly might, does not fit with =
    Anuire/Cormyr, Rjurik/Rashemen-Dales-Savage North, Vos/Great Grey Land =
    of Thar, Khinasi/Calimshan, or Brechtur/Sembia-Waterdeep-Amn. Perhaps =
    if the BR designers had received their justly-deserved funding, Djapar =
    or Aduria might have included such a land.
    I was under the impression that Djapar and Aduria were vast lands =
    unexplored for the past 1500 years and more. Why should the people of =
    those lands not have discovered their own way to channel the True =
    Source? (Yeah, I'm a Robert Jordan addict. Sorry.) Not so long ago on =
    this message board, it was suggested that some less-than-moral people of =
    Cerilia might have turned to daemon-craft/witchcraft/Even Darker =
    Sorceries to substitute for their lack of the Blood. I happen to really =
    like that idea.
    Also, wizard-kings (think Tolkien especially) are a staple of =
    fantasy. Given the right circumstances, wizards can (most WILL) rise to =
    great power and dominance. What if they get a little itsy bit =
    ambitious, and crave political might as well as sorcerous? They =
    certainly have the means to take control.
    If you like, I can give numerous hypotheticals as to how a wizard of =
    less-than-ethical bent might seize and hold power. (Hint: Charm, =
    Domination, and Mass Charm and delightful spells for the power-mad.)
    Brandes

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    I=20
    REALLY do not like your suggestion of a Thayan-type culture in =
    Djapar or=20
    Aduria.  The only true wizards en masse exist within elven =
    lands. =20
    An even then they tend to focus more on druidic type things over =
    Invokations=20
    and stuff like that.  IMO, Cerilia has the highest =
    concentration of=20
    human wizards (since Djapar had no one at Diesmaar and very few =
    Adurians=20
    survived).  How the hell would you end up with a who has a =
    whole ruling=20
    class based on wizards when only .99 % of the human population has =
    even the=20
    talent (INT & Bloodline) to become true mages.  Now =
    assuming that=20
    only 1% of them choose to be wizards, that is .099% of the =
    population. How=20
    do you come up with enough of them for a Thayan-type culture?=20

    The Realms are more fully explored by far.  =
    Thayan=20
    culture, focused so greatly around wizardly might, does not =
    fit with=20
    Anuire/Cormyr, Rjurik/Rashemen-Dales-Savage North, Vos/Great =
    Grey=20
    Land of Thar, Khinasi/Calimshan, or=20
    Brechtur/Sembia-Waterdeep-Amn.  Perhaps if the BR =
    designers had=20
    received their justly-deserved funding, Djapar or Aduria =
    might have=20
    included such a land.
    I was under the impression that Djapar and =
    Aduria were=20
    vast lands unexplored for the past 1500 years and more.  Why =
    should the=20
    people of those lands not have discovered their own way to channel =
    the True=20
    Source?  (Yeah, I'm a Robert Jordan addict.  Sorry.)  =
    Not so=20
    long ago on this message board, it was suggested that some =
    less-than-moral=20
    people of Cerilia might have turned to daemon-craft/witchcraft/Even =
    Darker=20
    Sorceries to substitute for their lack of the Blood.  I happen =
    to=20
    really like that idea.
    Also, wizard-kings (think Tolkien especially) =
    are a staple=20
    of fantasy.  Given the right circumstances, wizards can (most =
    WILL)=20
    rise to great power and dominance.  What if they get a little =
    itsy bit=20
    ambitious, and crave political might as well as sorcerous?  =
    They=20
    certainly have the means to take control.
    If you like, I can give numerous hypotheticals =
    as to how a=20
    wizard of less-than-ethical bent might seize and hold power. (Hint: =
    Charm,=20
    Domination, and Mass Charm and delightful spells for the=20
    power-mad.)
    Brandes

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  8. #8
    Jeff Dunnett
    Guest

    I feel it`s my duty

    I think you got the number of god cerialla has less then what FR has.
    I think that number is somewhere around 150. LOL




    - ---Tim Nutting wrote:
    >
    > The ceaseless attacks on Forgotten Realms are really
    unnecessary. The fact that you still play a campaign world that the
    creators gave up on states well enough that you prefer this world.
    > Yep. 100%. FR is fun, and has it's place, but to a mature and more
    worldly role-player, Cerilia has it all. Playing FR is like reading
    the Darksword Chronicles, or something. Everybody's got magic, even
    the farmers...
    > It's my duty to defend FR, the most popular campaign world,
    well, ever, against libel.
    >
    > Choose "slander" instead. Libel is infringement on creative rights.
    > The main complaint: it has too much magic. Gee, let me
    think, that's the DM's decision completely.
    >
    > And kill Elminster while your at it, too. :) In defense, tho, it's
    not all the DMs fault. Ever try playing with other FR DMs? Want to
    hear a DM whine? Change the world he DMs when you run it...
    >
    > In Cerilia there are SOME very powerful mages. In Faerun, the are
    LOTS of VERY POWERFUL mages. No on in BR approaches 30th level...
    That the magic is concentrated in those who hold power is not
    outrageous or rediculous, but aren't you the least bit depressed when
    your players say "oh, another sword +2".
    >
    > To me Baron Gavin Tael's Iron Guard is perhapst he most fearsome
    group of soldiers in all Anuire. They are tough, militant,
    aggressive, and brutal, and they get plate & mail for free. They
    don't hold a candle to a standard Purple Dragons, who average 3rd to
    6th level with a 7th level captain and a wizard of 4th + traveling
    along for kicks. Further, each wizard is armed with two wands (don't
    those cost CON points to make? What's it cost to get folks to
    voluntarily sacrifice so much life energy?) Compare this to the
    awsome might of 10 men on of 1st to 2nd level led by a 4th level
    captain, and their "magic" is a load of crossbows. Yes, I can change
    FR all I want, but... I don't want to. I take out the Purple Dragons,
    I have to take out the very infrastructure of Azoun and Cormyr... I
    don't have time for that.
    > If magic gets out of hand in ANY campaign, there's only one
    person to blame. As a corollary to that statement, I had a worse
    problem with magic in my Birthright campaign than I do in my current
    FR campaign.
    >
    > "Gee, let me think, that's the DM's decision completely."
    > The problem raced from the fact that the major NPC's boast
    some outrageous magic for a world that pretends to be low-magic. In
    my FR campaign, there is no real danger of my PC's deciding to go hunt
    down an NPC, even an evil one, just to take his sword +5 (or
    whatever). This happened in BR.
    >
    > Why? And how does one's foe being Evil excuse a deed? Last I
    looked LG, CG, and LN did not use the ends to justify the means.
    > Aramis, a 5th level thief, made quick work of Guilder Kalien
    because he wanted the sword +1. He broke into Kal-Saitharak (sp?)
    > and, at 7th level, took Bloodsilver and Prince Fhilaraene (sp?)
    from the Gorgon's throne room, despite massive security.
    >
    > Your idea of "massive security" and mine must differ. I guess your
    7th level theif could walk into Elminster's study unscathed too,
    right? IMC, you don't get into Battlewaite without invitaion. If you
    do, it's through the catacombs, and they make Undermountain look like
    Disneyland. I outright murdered my last party of foolish 12th level+
    who tried to find Halastar's Horde. If you don't want them to have
    it, kill them.
    > What I'm saying is that the BR designers just sort of threw
    everything out there.
    >
    > I take serious issue with that kind of slander. A practiced
    political eye shows that to be entirely untrue. Every realm has an
    interaction with every other realm. If I may ask, just how does the
    Moonsea relate to Shadowdale, except via the Zhentarim?
    > Most NPC's of ANY note have serious magic.
    >
    > As it should be. Power attracts power. And yet by the time a party
    reached 9th level under my FR game (using standard goodies and
    adventures) I had characters with more magic than any regent of Cerilia.
    > The other aspect of any arguments claiming BR to be low-magic is
    that wizards can't do much as regents (true) and aren't as dominant as
    FR wizards. As to the second part, bullfeathers. Take a peek at
    sources like the Blood Enemies sourcebook. Now tell me that wizards
    aren't as dominant. Hmmm . . . Magian? Gorgon? White Witch?
    Banshegh? Rhoube? Chimera? Shall I continue?
    >
    > Halastair, Khelban, Elminster, Red Wizards, Simbul, Tessaril,
    Vangerdahast... . Okay... Tael, Swordwraith, Raenech, Diem,
    Avan, Tuornen, Boeruine, the Mhor, Dhoesone, Roesone, Aglondier (only
    3rd level!). Balance it out my friend. Compare the number of realms
    ruled by warriors and "action" types to the wizards. There is not a
    single nation where the ruling class is all wizards (ala Thay).
    >
    > A short list of lands not ruled by wizards: Roesone, Aerenwe,
    Osoerde, Ghoere, Diemed, Endier, Avanil, Broesengae, Tuornen, Alamie,
    Mhoried, Elinie, Coeranys, Markazor, Cariele, Talinie, Dhoesone,
    Stjorkdvik, Rjuvik, Svinik, Halskapa, Jankaping, Hogunmark, Kvigmar,
    Kiergard, Baruk-Azhik....
    >
    > In Eveningstar (Cormyr) Lord Tessaril Neverwinter helps her 7th
    level guardsmen keep the peace by using ESP and insuch and ivading the
    minds of newcomers to discover their intentions.... That waste of a
    mage would never happen in cerilia, there's too few of them as it is,
    and they can't figure out why magic dwindles (cut out the heart - i.e.
    the elvish lands), and the body (magic) dies"
    >
    > Lastly, BE is a sourcebook about immortal creatures touched by the
    magic of a dying god. In a realm that boasts something of about 50
    less gods, this is really an event.
    > I don't doubt that someone will respond to this post with "Hey,
    shut up about FR, this is a BR mailing list."
    >
    > I'm sorry you think so little of us.
    > I will qualify my post by saying that I just want everyone else
    to stop trashing FR in their posts. That's really the only reason I'm
    writing this.
    >
    > Obviously I do not hesitate to say that I prefer Cerilia to Faerun.
    Any world where I am able to create a rivalry between a 1st level
    priest henchman and a 0-level local healer, because the healer is
    jealous the other has been gifted with magic and she not, well, that's
    a world you keep. You see, such an event was plausible, there was no
    difficulty retaining suspension of disbielef, and that by sheer fact
    that the author's pen made that possible.
    >
    > Due to it's cumbersuome nature and extremely unrealistic political
    structure, FR will continue to get the bum wrap. I'm sorry that the
    poor cousin gets put upon when compared to its superior, but...
    >
    > Tim Nutting
    >










    The ceaseless attacks on
    Forgotten
    Realms are really unnecessary.┬* The fact that you still play a
    campaign
    world that the creators gave up on states well enough that you
    prefer this
    world.
    Yep.┬* 100%.┬* FR is fun, and has
    it's place, but to a mature and more worldly role-player, Cerilia has
    it
    all.┬* Playing FR is like reading the Darksword Chronicles, or
    something.┬* Everybody's got magic, even the
    farmers...

    It's my duty to defend FR,
    the most
    popular campaign world, well, ever, against
    libel.
    ┬*
    Choose "slander" instead.┬* Libel is
    infringement on creative rights.

    ┬* The main complaint:┬* it
    has too much magic.┬* Gee, let me think, that's the DM's decision
    completely.
    ┬*
    And kill Elminster while your at
    it,
    too.┬* :)┬* In defense, tho, it's not all the DMs fault.┬* Ever try
    playing with other FR DMs?┬* Want to hear a DM whine?┬* Change the world
    he DMs when you run it...
    ┬*
    In Cerilia there are SOME very powerful mages.┬* In
    Faerun, the are LOTS of VERY POWERFUL mages.┬* No on in BR approaches
    30th
    level...┬* That the magic is concentrated in those who hold power is not
    outrageous or rediculous, but aren't you the least bit depressed when
    your
    players say "oh, another sword +2".
    ┬*
    To me Baron Gavin Tael's Iron Guard is perhapst he
    most
    fearsome group of soldiers in all Anuire.┬* They are tough, militant,
    aggressive, and brutal, and they get plate & mail for free.┬* They don't
    hold a candle to a standard Purple Dragons, who average 3rd
    to 6th
    level with a 7th level captain and a wizard of 4th + traveling along
    for
    kicks.┬* Further, each wizard is armed with two wands (don't
    those
    cost CON points to make?┬* What's it cost to get folks to voluntarily
    sacrifice so much life energy?)┬* Compare this to the awsome might of
    10 men
    on of 1st to 2nd level led by a 4th level captain, and their "magic"
    is a load of crossbows.┬* Yes, I can change FR all I want, but... I
    don't
    want to.┬* I take out the Purple Dragons, I have to take out the very
    infrastructure of Azoun and Cormyr...┬* I don't have time for
    that.

    ┬* If magic gets out of hand
    in
    ANY campaign, there's only one person to blame.┬* As a corollary to
    that
    statement, I had a worse problem with magic in my Birthright
    campaign than I
    do in my current FR campaign.
    ┬*
    "Gee, let me think, that's the DM's decision
    completely."

    ┬* The problem raced from the
    fact
    that the major NPC's boast some outrageous magic for a world that
    pretends
    to be low-magic.┬* In my FR campaign, there is no real danger of my
    PC's
    deciding to go hunt down an NPC, even an evil one, just to take
    his sword +5
    (or whatever).┬* This happened in BR.
    ┬*
    Why?┬* And how does one's foe
    being
    Evil excuse a deed?┬* Last I looked LG, CG, and LN did not use the ends
    to
    justify the means.

    Aramis, a 5th level thief,
    made quick
    work of Guilder Kalien because he wanted the sword +1.┬* He broke
    into
    Kal-Saitharak (sp?)
    and, at 7th level, took
    Bloodsilver
    and Prince Fhilaraene (sp?) from the Gorgon's throne room, despite
    massive
    security.
    ┬*
    Your idea of "massive security"
    and mine must differ.┬* I guess your 7th level theif could walk into
    Elminster's study unscathed too, right?┬* IMC, you don't get into
    Battlewaite without invitaion.┬* If you do, it's through the catacombs,
    and
    they make Undermountain look like Disneyland.┬* I outright murdered my
    last
    party of foolish 12th level+ who tried to find Halastar's Horde.┬* If
    you
    don't want them to have it, kill them.

    What I'm saying is that the
    BR
    designers just sort of threw everything out
    there.
    ┬*
    I take serious issue with that kind of slander.┬* A
    practiced political eye shows that to be entirely untrue.┬* Every realm
    has
    an interaction with every other realm.┬* If I may ask, just how does the
    Moonsea relate to Shadowdale, except via the Zhentarim?

    Most NPC's
    of ANY note have serious magic.
    ┬*
    As it should be.┬* Power attracts
    power.┬* And yet by the time a party reached 9th level under my FR game
    (using standard goodies and adventures) I had characters with more
    magic than
    any regent of Cerilia.

    The other aspect of any
    arguments
    claiming BR to be low-magic is that wizards can't do much as
    regents (true)
    and aren't as dominant as FR wizards.┬* As to the second part,
    bullfeathers.┬* Take a peek at sources like the Blood Enemies
    sourcebook.┬* Now tell me that wizards aren't as dominant.┬* Hmmm .
    . . Magian?┬* Gorgon?┬* White Witch?┬* Banshegh?┬*
    Rhoube?┬* Chimera?┬* Shall I continue?
    ┬*
    Halastair, Khelban, Elminster,
    Red
    Wizards, Simbul, Tessaril, Vangerdahast...┬* .┬* Okay...
    Tael, Swordwraith, Raenech, Diem, Avan, Tuornen, Boeruine, the Mhor,
    Dhoesone,
    Roesone, Aglondier (only 3rd level!).┬* Balance it out my friend.┬*
    Compare the number of realms ruled by warriors and "action" types to
    the wizards.┬* There is not a single nation where the ruling class is
    all
    wizards (ala Thay).┬*
    ┬*
    A short list of lands
    not ruled
    by wizards:┬* Roesone, Aerenwe, Osoerde, Ghoere, Diemed, Endier, Avanil,
    Broesengae, Tuornen, Alamie, Mhoried, Elinie, Coeranys, Markazor,
    Cariele,
    Talinie, Dhoesone, Stjorkdvik, Rjuvik, Svinik, Halskapa, Jankaping,
    Hogunmark,
    Kvigmar, Kiergard, Baruk-Azhik....
    ┬*
    In Eveningstar (Cormyr) Lord Tessaril
    Neverwinter helps her 7th level guardsmen keep the peace by using ESP
    and insuch
    and ivading the minds of newcomers to discover their intentions....┬*
    That
    waste of a mage would never happen in cerilia, there's too few of them
    as it is,
    and they can't figure out why magic dwindles (cut out the heart - i.e.
    the
    elvish lands), and the body (magic) dies"
    ┬*
    Lastly, BE is a sourcebook about
    immortal
    creatures touched by the magic of a dying god.┬* In a realm that boasts
    something of about 50 less gods, this is really an
    event.

    I don't doubt that someone will respond to this
    post with
    "Hey, shut up about FR, this is a BR mailing
    list."
    ┬*
    I'm sorry you think so little of
    us.

    I will qualify my post by saying that I just
    want everyone
    else to stop trashing FR in their posts.┬* That's really the only
    reason
    I'm writing this.
    ┬*
    Obviously I do not hesitate to say that I prefer
    Cerilia to
    Faerun.┬* Any world where I am able to create a rivalry between a 1st
    level
    priest henchman and a 0-level local healer, because the healer is
    jealous the
    other has been gifted with magic and she not, well, that's a world you
    keep.┬* You see, such an event was plausible, there was no difficulty
    retaining suspension of disbielef, and that by sheer fact that the
    author's pen
    made that possible.
    ┬*
    Due to it's cumbersuome nature and extremely
    unrealistic
    political structure, FR will continue to get the bum wrap.┬* I'm sorry
    that
    the poor cousin gets put upon when compared to its superior, but...

    ┬*
    Tim Nutting


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