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  1. #1
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    Ending realm spells prematurely

    I have two questions: if the source used to cast a realm spell is destroyed,
    does the spell end? What about if the casting wizard is killed, do all his
    ongoing realm spells collapse?

    ******************
    Aleksei Andrievski
    aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star
    aka Azure Star Dragon
    solmyr@kolumbus.fi
    http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html

  2. #2
    Memnoch
    Guest

    Ending realm spells prematurely

    This has a couple of interesting consequences.

    It depends on whether you ascribe to the view that realm spells are separate
    from the caster, after they are cast (which seems to be the case, since no
    realm spell that I know of has a continuous maintenance or concentration
    requirement). Additionally, if a source has to be chosen, and a ley line is
    connected between sources that the mage regent has and has an equal or
    greater power than the destroyed source, then I would say no to this part,
    as the spell would be able to draw magical energy through the ley line for
    power even if the original source is destroyed.

    Interesting that you should bring this up. Would the same hold for Priestly
    Realm spells?

    Memnoch
    - -----Original Message-----
    From: Solmyr of the Azure Star
    To: Birthright Mailing List
    Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 2:20 PM
    Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Ending realm spells prematurely


    |I have two questions: if the source used to cast a realm spell is
    destroyed,
    |does the spell end? What about if the casting wizard is killed, do all his
    |ongoing realm spells collapse?
    |
    |******************
    |Aleksei Andrievski
    |aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star
    |aka Azure Star Dragon
    |solmyr@kolumbus.fi
    |http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html
    |
    |
    |************************************************* **************************
    ||'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    |

  3. #3
    David Sean Brown
    Guest

    Ending realm spells prematurely

    I've always used the same rules for realm spells as I have for mundane
    spells IMC..unless the spell description specifically says the caster must
    continue to concentrate on the spell (or remain conscious), the spell
    lasts for its entire duration (note this also means the spell can't be cut
    short by the caster, unless indicated in the spell description)..why you
    ask..well, once the spell is cast, the energy for it is already
    expended...it doesn't continue to "draw" from the caster (or the source,
    in the cast of realm spells)..its a one shot thing..otherwise, (using
    mundane magic as the example) a mage could never leave an in place effect
    and go elsewhere..he/she woudl have to stay nearby to power the spell...I
    use the same logic for realm spells...so, if you have a level 5 source,
    and cast a spell (say warding) , it doesn't matter if the source is
    raised, reduced or destroyed, the spell effect remains till hte duration
    expires (unless its dispelled, of course).

    Sean


    > |I have two questions: if the source used to cast a realm spell is
    > destroyed,
    > |does the spell end? What about if the casting wizard is killed, do all his
    > |ongoing realm spells collapse?

  4. #4
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    Ending realm spells prematurely

    On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Solmyr of the Azure Star wrote:

    > I have two questions: if the source used to cast a realm spell is destroyed,
    > does the spell end? What about if the casting wizard is killed, do all his
    > ongoing realm spells collapse?

    Ooo, interesting question. And a lot more complex than it looks on the
    surface.

    I guess the question comes down to "does a source 'power' a realm spell
    for its whole duration, or is the realm spell capable of supporting itself
    once it's cast. My first instinct was to say that the source does
    continue to power the spell, but on futher reflection, I don't think that
    this is true, and so a realm spell would continue to survive after its
    source has been decimated. My reasoning follows.

    Look at the way realm spells are cast. The caster must spend a month
    drawing the mebhaighl into himself, and only at the end of the month is
    the spell sufficiently "powered" that it can be cast. This suggests that
    the power required to fuel the spell is "loaded in" before the spell is
    cast. This is supported by the mechanics of casting realm spells. More
    powerful spells require higher level sources, but take the same amount of
    time to cast, given that stronger "power input." Both of these suggest
    that realm spells are self-sufficient once they are cast.

    Further, examing the logistics of using ley lines. A wizard can cast a
    spell requiring a higher source level that than province has if he has a
    ley line to a sufficiently powerful source. This suggests that while the
    "energy" is fluid and moveable, the effect is not. Thus, once the spell is
    cast, it becomes implanted in the province in which it is cast (and
    potentially others if it is capable of effecting multiple provinces). Thus
    it seems to me that when cast, the spell, and all the power necessary to
    cast it somehow becomes "imbedded" into the magical fabric of the
    province, perhaps causing changes in the "ether" or "phlogiston" of that
    province, "stretching" it to hold the magical potential energy of the
    spell, so that it slowly leaks out into the kinetic energy of the spell
    effect.

    This might also explain how the "Dispel Realm Spell" spell works: it
    simply floods the "phlogiston" with energy, knocking out any previously
    imbedded spell like a strong magnet passed over a floppy disk. An
    interesting question, therefore, is whether lesser spells of temporary
    duration are also disturbed and blanked out when the Dispel Realm Spell is
    cast. Gosh, this is fun! Would any Contingency spells be blanked out, or
    is there some way to "root" them into a physical object that helps them
    resist such flooding by white energy?

    Further, are there mystical "tides" in the "phlogiston" that occur
    naturally, and can serve to blank out temporary spells that are hanging
    when the tide changes. This could be correspond with times of the day, or
    even with different signs of the zodiac. Hey, now this idea might actually
    be a workable idea for building some reality and usefulness into the
    "Astrology" proficiency that I've been looking for!

    "Wait my friends. Let us not attempt the Tower at this time! We should
    wait until morning, and for the Tides of Aethyr to pass, for under the
    constellation of Haelyn that Tide might be strong enough to dispel my
    Invisibililty spell, even though it be cast at the seventh magnitude."

    Woo-hoo!

    Ok, what was the second question? Oh, yes. No, I think if the Realm spell
    were to survive the demise of the source it was cast with, it would also
    survive the death of the caster.

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  5. #5
    darkstar
    Guest

    Ending realm spells prematurely

    Solmyr of the Azure Star wrote:
    >
    > I have two questions: if the source used to cast a realm spell is destroyed,
    > does the spell end? What about if the casting wizard is killed, do all his
    > ongoing realm spells collapse?
    >
    I would say that it depends on the spell. I have always been of the
    opinion that the source is used to power the realm spells (ie is the
    source of their strenght). So if the source powering something like a
    warding spell is destroyed, then the spell also ends.

    - --
    Ian Hoskins

    e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
    Homepage: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss

    ICQ: 2938300 AIM: IHoskins

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Ending realm spells prematurely

    > Further, examing the logistics of using ley lines. A wizard can cast a
    > spell requiring a higher source level that than province has if he has a
    > ley line to a sufficiently powerful source. This suggests that while the
    > "energy" is fluid and moveable, the effect is not. Thus, once the spell is
    > cast, it becomes implanted in the province in which it is cast (and
    > potentially others if it is capable of effecting multiple provinces). Thus
    > it seems to me that when cast, the spell, and all the power necessary to
    > cast it somehow becomes "imbedded" into the magical fabric of the
    > province, perhaps causing changes in the "ether" or "phlogiston" of that
    > province, "stretching" it to hold the magical potential energy of the
    > spell, so that it slowly leaks out into the kinetic energy of the spell
    > effect.
    >
    > This might also explain how the "Dispel Realm Spell" spell works: it
    > simply floods the "phlogiston" with energy, knocking out any previously
    > imbedded spell like a strong magnet passed over a floppy disk. An
    > interesting question, therefore, is whether lesser spells of temporary
    > duration are also disturbed and blanked out when the Dispel Realm Spell is
    > cast. Gosh, this is fun! Would any Contingency spells be blanked out, or
    > is there some way to "root" them into a physical object that helps them
    > resist such flooding by white energy?
    >
    > Further, are there mystical "tides" in the "phlogiston" that occur
    > naturally, and can serve to blank out temporary spells that are hanging
    > when the tide changes. This could be correspond with times of the day, or
    > even with different signs of the zodiac. Hey, now this idea might actually
    > be a workable idea for building some reality and usefulness into the
    > "Astrology" proficiency that I've been looking for!

    If you want to go through with this, I think I should make you awar of the
    fact that in the AD&D game, the "phlogiston" already denotes something
    else entirely. Let me give you a short briefing.
    As you might or might not know, each solar system in the AD&D game is
    encapsuled in a seperate crystal sphere (with the exception of perhaps
    Mystara, but that is mostly because that setting is originally D&D).
    Inside a crystal spheres are void and planets. Outside a crystal sphere
    is the Phlogiston. In the Phlogiston drift the crystal spheres of the
    AD&D game worlds, both official and home-grown. This "fact" was
    established in the Spelljammer campaign setting in 1989 and still is
    official for any of the AD&D game worlds, including such noteworthies as
    Birthright and Dark Sun (though the latter's crystal sphere cannot be
    penetrated by spelljamming vessels). As for the Phlogiston itself, it is
    the name for both the matter outside the crystal sphere as well as the
    name of the space there and it is found on the Prime Material Plane only.
    Also, it has the unique propert of being totally sealed off of all of the
    myriad planes of existance. Thus, no plane shifting or astral travelling
    is possible in the Phlogiston, nor can you access any extra-dimensional
    spaces there like bags of holding and rope tricks.
    I'm not trying to forbid you from using the name Phlogiston or anything,
    but I just want you to know that the name is already in use.

    Hope I haven't stepped on anyone's toes there...

    - the Falcon


    Michael Roele van Anuire ben ik van Andu bloed
    Mijn vaderland getrouwe blijf ik tot in den doed...

  7. #7
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    Ending realm spells prematurely

    On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, the Falcon wrote:

    > I'm not trying to forbid you from using the name Phlogiston or anything,
    > but I just want you to know that the name is already in use.

    No, no, thanks for the information. Ether or Aethyr would work perfectly
    fine (particularly, I suppose, with the screwed up nature of Aebrynnis's
    Etheral Plane), and I know virtually nothing about Spelljammer, so the
    warning is appreciated.

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    Ending realm spells prematurely

    > No, no, thanks for the information. Ether or Aethyr would work perfectly
    > fine (particularly, I suppose, with the screwed up nature of Aebrynnis's
    > Etheral Plane), and I know virtually nothing about Spelljammer, so the
    > warning is appreciated.

    Well, you could also call it the Weave, like they do in FR.

  9. #9
    Kenneth Gauck
    Guest

    Ending realm spells prematurely

    This is just one of those odd examples where D&D renames stuff for no good
    reason. In early modern science, Plogisten is the substance that burns when
    released from material. By appliying that flint and steel to some wood, you
    are producing am escape for the Plogisten inside, hence, wood burns.
    The material of which the heavens are created is not plogisten, but
    quintessense. The perfect, uncorruptable fifth element. Earth, air, fire,
    and water being the other four. Since D&D uses the 4 element scheme,
    dropping quintessence and adopting phlogisten (which was very clearly post
    dates the 4 element scheme) is nothing more than an attempt to make things
    diferent for the sake of difference. Which I find irritating, since I know
    what concepts these names represented in real life. I am glad someone
    persuaded them not to call swords "blades" and axes "swords".

    Kenneth Gauck
    c558382@earthlink.net

    - -----Original Message-----
    From: the Falcon
    To: Birthright Mailing List
    Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 6:25 AM
    Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Ending realm spells prematurely


    >> Further, examing the logistics of using ley lines. A wizard can cast a
    >> spell requiring a higher source level that than province has if he has a
    >> ley line to a sufficiently powerful source. This suggests that while the
    >> "energy" is fluid and moveable, the effect is not. Thus, once the spell
    is
    >> cast, it becomes implanteprovince in d in the which it is cast (and
    >> potentially others if it is capable of effecting multiple provinces).
    Thus
    >> it seems to me that when cast, the spell, and all the power necessary to
    >> cast it somehow becomes "imbedded" into the magical fabric of the
    >> province, perhaps causing changes in the "ether" or "phlogiston" of that
    >> province, "stretching" it to hold the magical potential energy of the
    >> spell, so that it slowly leaks out into the kinetic energy of the spell
    >> effect.
    >>
    >> This might also explain how the "Dispel Realm Spell" spell works: it
    >> simply floods the "phlogiston" with energy, knocking out any previously
    >> imbedded spell like a strong magnet passed over a floppy disk. An
    >> interesting question, therefore, is whether lesser spells of temporary
    >> duration are also disturbed and blanked out when the Dispel Realm Spell
    is
    >> cast. Gosh, this is fun! Would any Contingency spells be blanked out, or
    >> is there some way to "root" them into a physical object that helps them
    >> resist such flooding by white energy?
    >>
    >> Further, are there mystical "tides" in the "phlogiston" that occur
    >> naturally, and can serve to blank out temporary spells that are hanging
    >> when the tide changes. This could be correspond with times of the day, or
    >> even with different signs of the zodiac. Hey, now this idea might
    actually
    >> be a workable idea for building some reality and usefulness into the
    >> "Astrology" proficiency that I've been looking for!
    >
    >If you want to go through with this, I think I should make you awar of the
    >fact that in the AD&D game, the "phlogiston" already denotes something
    >else entirely. Let me give you a short briefing.
    >As you might or might not know, each solar system in the AD&D game is
    >encapsuled in a seperate crystal sphere (with the exception of perhaps
    >Mystara, but that is mostly because that setting is originally D&D).
    >Inside a crystal spheres are void and planets. Outside a crystal sphere
    >is the Phlogiston. In the Phlogiston drift the crystal spheres of the
    >AD&D game worlds, both official and home-grown. This "fact" was
    >established in the Spelljammer campaign setting in 1989 and still is
    >official for any of the AD&D game worlds, including such noteworthies as
    >Birthright and Dark Sun (though the latter's crystal sphere cannot be
    >penetrated by spelljamming vessels). As for the Phlogiston itself, it is
    >the name for both the matter outside the crystal sphere as well as the
    >name of the space there and it is found on the Prime Material Plane only.
    >Also, it has the unique propert of being totally sealed off of all of the
    >myriad planes of existance. Thus, no plane shifting or astral travelling
    >is possible in the Phlogiston, nor can you access any extra-dimensional
    >spaces there like bags of holding and rope tricks.
    >I'm not trying to forbid you from using the name Phlogiston or anything,
    >but I just want you to know that the name is already in use.
    >
    >Hope I haven't stepped on anyone's toes there...
    >
    > - the Falcon
    >
    >
    >Michael Roele van Anuire ben ik van Andu bloed
    >Mijn vaderland getrouwe blijf ik tot in den doed...
    >
    >************************************************* **************************
    >>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    >

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    Ending realm spells prematurely

    > This is just one of those odd examples where D&D renames stuff for no good
    > reason. In early modern science, Plogisten is the substance that burns when
    > released from material. By appliying that flint and steel to some wood, you
    > are producing am escape for the Plogisten inside, hence, wood burns.

    er... Not in _modern_ science though. In Mediaevel science, yes.
    Anyways, the Phlogiston is highly flamable (one aspect I forgot to
    mention). Cast a fireball in the Flow (as it often called) and it will
    explode at ground zero for three times the normal effect. Fire in the
    Flow is a definite no-no.

    > The material of which the heavens are created is not plogisten, but
    > quintessense. The perfect, uncorruptable fifth element. Earth, air, fire,
    > and water being the other four. Since D&D uses the 4 element scheme,
    > dropping quintessence and adopting phlogisten (which was very clearly post
    > dates the 4 element scheme) is nothing more than an attempt to make things
    > diferent for the sake of difference. Which I find irritating, since I know
    > what concepts these names represented in real life. I am glad someone
    > persuaded them not to call swords "blades" and axes "swords".

    I never said the heavens were made of Phlogiston. The heavens are made of
    the crystal sphere. You see, those crystal spheres are usually utterly
    black, but dotted on the inside with stars. No one knows what crystal
    spheres are made of, though, and apparently they are indestructable.
    Also, another interesting property of Phlogiston is that it
    apparently cannot exist within a crystal sphere; try to take it in and
    you'll discover you're left with nothing but void. And yet, such
    creatures as wizshades (which have been republished recently in a MC
    Annual) can appear both inside and outside of the Flow. Mmm...

    Anyways, I'll leave the Flow for what it is now, and get back to
    Birthright.

    - the Falcon

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