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Thread: elven victory?

  1. #21
    Pieter A de Jong
    Guest

    elven victory?

    Pieter Sleijpen wrote:
    >
    > How quick do units heal lost hits anyway?
    >
    I do not think that there is a rule published for that. However,
    assuming that most members of a unit are 0 or 1st level fighters,
    they have between 5 and 10 HP. This means that they can take at most
    9 HP of damage before dying. As standard AD&D rules are that you
    recover 1 hp/day,+ 1 hp/day for competent healers, + 1 hp/day for
    complete rest. I would suggest therefore that it takes at most 9 days
    for a unit to heal completely, assuming that it did not take enough
    casualties to require reforming the unit (ie what casualties it did
    take can be replaced from the reserves). This figure of 9 days is very
    close to one war move. Therefore, it seems likely that units recover
    completely between war moves, especially when you consider surgeons,
    priests, etc.
    While the above is somewhat unrealistic, it is simple and will do for
    game play. However, the effect of losing battles should be considered
    on the morale of the units involved.

    - --

    Pieter A de Jong
    Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
    University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

  2. #22
    Pieter A de Jong
    Guest

    elven victory?

    the Falcon wrote:
    >
    > > I have great difficulty with this thesis. There are mage spells that
    > > are
    > > very useful over long durations. Consider Armor, magic
    > > mouth, continual light, wyvern watch, and when you get high level
    > > conjured creatures.
    >
    > _wyvern_watch_ is a priest spell... thought I'd just mention that... and
    > magic mouth isn't much of a combat spell, is it?
    >
    Sorry, I got my spells mixed up. Sepia Snake Sigil is what I should
    have
    written. As for magic mouth, consider the following. Cast it on a
    spear to whisper "danger" whenever a non-elven humanoid creature comes
    within 90'. Kinda makes ambushes a lot harder to perform. It makes a
    very nice method of securing fortications.

    - --

    Pieter A de Jong
    Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
    University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

  3. #23
    Pieter A de Jong
    Guest

    elven victory?

    Carole A Lipinski wrote:
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Kenneth Gauck
    > To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    > Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 3:40 PM
    > Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Re: elven victory?
    >
    > >>Elves are lacking the two things that give humans the edge though,
    > ruthlessness and breeding capacity. With rare exception most elves would
    > not be into all out war or even scorched earth warfare. Humans would do
    > what ever it took to win. Also humans breed like rabbits so the elves can
    > not compete there at all.
    > >>
    >
    Well, IMC, yes the humans have a faster rate of reproduction (much
    faster). However, in ruthlessness, the elves are easily as bad as
    the humans. These are not cuddly, friendly elves, whose only
    concern is frolicking in the moonlight. If you have ever read the
    comic "Poison Elves" by Drew Hayes, you've probably got the idea.

    And anyhow, if what wins in warfare is ruthlessness and birthrate,
    how come the goblins don't own all of cerilia?
    - --

    Pieter A de Jong
    Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
    University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

  4. #24
    Pieter A de Jong
    Guest

    elven victory?

    Kenneth Gauck wrote:
    >
    > The elves in the published materials don't appear to be all that high level.
    > Certainly not to overawe human priests.

    I know. I find this very stupid. On the other hand, the published
    supplements rarely consider unblooded characters. I will suggest that a
    smaller proportion of the elven population is blooded. The elves don't
    reproduce as fast, and therefore the blood doesn't spread as much.
    Considering the non-blooded population, I would suggest that there is
    plenty of rooom for high level characters.

    > Second, I would not expect elven armies to be routing the enemy. The last
    > battle I gamed out had the goblins (not the best war cards in the deck)
    > giving the elves a run for their money. I would expect they do as well as
    > anyone else.

    That really depends how many battle spells you hand out. I will agree
    that
    the elven war cards aren't that powerful. If on the other hand, the
    elves
    have 2 wizards with battle spells attached to every unit, that will
    result
    in the elves winning most battles, and usually routing their enemies.
    BTW,
    this is not a high level of wizards. Every elf is classed (MM), they
    can
    only be fighters, rangers, wizards, thieves and bards. And every elf
    meets
    the attribute requirements to be a wizard.

    > Perhaps you are adding something to the game, which others are not which
    > results in your game having something other than the low-magic feel which is
    > pretty commonly mentioned on this list.

    Indeed, as I have stated many times on this list, I run a significantly
    higher magic birthright campaign than most people do, as I look at the
    published material and use the logical results of what I see presented.


    > Kenneth Gauck
    > c558382@earthlink.net


    Pieter A de Jong
    Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
    University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

  5. #25
    Pieter A de Jong
    Guest

    elven victory?

    Jim Cooper wrote:
    >
    > Kenneth Gauck wrote:
    > > Second, I would not expect elven armies to be routing the enemy. The last battle I gamed out had the goblins (not the best war cards in the deck) giving the elves a run for their money. I would expect they do as well as anyone else.<
    >
    > Heh. This reminds me of a fond little experience with the BR warcard
    > rules IMC.
    >
    > I once had a mere *2* Anuirean LEVY units ROUT and DESTROY a unit of
    > Knights of Haelyn. Boy was that hilarious! (Every -3 column for the
    > levvies was a H result, and the Knights at the +3 column only ever got 1
    > H result, the rest were "-"!!!).
    >
    > Woo Hoo!
    >
    > Its possible boys and girls! :) More power to the commoners! ;)
    >
    Congratulations on pointing out one of the more ridiculous hole in the
    war card system. I would suggest trying the War Machine rules from the
    D&D compagion set. They are much quicker than war card battles, and
    mostly produce more realistic results (although that last isn't hard!).
    - --

    Pieter A de Jong
    Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
    University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

  6. #26
    Pieter A de Jong
    Guest

    elven victory?

    Pieter Sleijpen wrote:
    >
    > Jim Cooper wrote:
    > >
    > > Pieter A de Jong wrote:
    > > > The real reason why the elves shouldn't lose is immortality.
    > > > Basically, humans start to die off before reaching really high
    > > > levels of experience. Therefore, elven mages are going to be much
    > > > more skilled in general than the human priests. It means that the
    > > > cumulative impact of elven magic will be much more destructive than
    > > > the priests can handle.
    > >
    > > I would favour this view. Unfortunately, there are many more humans
    > > in BR that are above 9th level than any other race.
    > >
    > > AND, why the heck are goblins and orogs always portrayed as weak?!?
    > > Let me see, I thing the King of Thurazor is the highest humanoid at
    > > 7th level ... I could be mistaken, but ... that's how I think all the
    > > other races should be treated in comparison to the elves (elves much
    > > higher than any other NPC, depending on the elf's age of course).
    > >
    >
    > TSR always has portrayed humans as having a stronger drive to get
    > further in their patethic short lives. That is why some of them can
    > reach such high levels. While elves totaly lack the drive to specialise
    > in an adventurers class (most of them anyway). They hate to fight or do
    > other adventurers stuff. Personally I find this idea not even that
    > stupid and they do hold most of the most powerful wizards in the game.
    > The few humans who are more powerful in this aspect are either liches
    > (the Magian and probably el-Sheighul) or awnsheghlien. The only
    > exception I have found on this is the White Sorceress in Merasaf.
    >
    I would at this point say, so what. Assume that elves gain experience
    at one fifth the rate humans do, and lets see what happens. The human
    lives till 76 (extremely old in medieval times). Starting at 16, this is
    60 years to gain experience. The elf at a 1/5th rate gain, takes 300
    to gain the same amount of experience. The elf is now 400 years old.
    It
    has been 1500 years since the last major elven die-off (Diesmaar and the
    chaos that followed). Any elf born within 300 years of Diesmaar has
    1200
    years to gain experience. And is therefore, 3 times as experienced as a
    nearly any human, and is not plagued by arthritis and a heart condition.
    Rather, he is in his prime years, and will be until something kills him.

    Finally, I have great difficulty with chopping the experience point gain
    rate by so much. Nowhere in the published literature does it suggest
    that
    elven (or other demihuman) PC's should get less experience points for
    the
    same feats than humans do.


    Pieter A de Jong
    Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
    University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

  7. #27
    Pieter A de Jong
    Guest

    elven victory?

    Kenneth Gauck wrote:
    >
    >
    > >The elves would use the night to attack humans, as they can see while
    > >the humans would be blind.
    > >
    > Or perhaps they'll wander around in the cool forest hoping to get withing 60
    > yards of the humans.
    >
    Hey where did this 60 yard thing come from. It's not infravision, it's
    starlight vision unlike standard AD&D elves, and doesn't have a precise
    distance limit.



    Pieter A de Jong
    Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
    University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

  8. #28
    Sindre Berg
    Guest

    elven victory?

    At 09:48 15.02.99 -0600, you wrote:
    >Jim Cooper wrote:
    >>
    >> Kenneth Gauck wrote:
    >> > Second, I would not expect elven armies to be routing the enemy. The
    >last battle I gamed out had the goblins (not the best war cards in the deck)
    >giving the elves a run for their money. I would expect they do as well as
    >anyone else.<
    >>
    >> Heh. This reminds me of a fond little experience with the BR warcard
    >> rules IMC.
    >>
    >> I once had a mere *2* Anuirean LEVY units ROUT and DESTROY a unit of
    >> Knights of Haelyn. Boy was that hilarious! (Every -3 column for the
    >> levvies was a H result, and the Knights at the +3 column only ever got 1
    >> H result, the rest were "-"!!!).
    >>
    >> Woo Hoo!
    >>
    >> Its possible boys and girls! :) More power to the commoners! ;)
    >>
    >Congratulations on pointing out one of the more ridiculous hole in the
    >war card system. I would suggest trying the War Machine rules from the
    >D&D compagion set. They are much quicker than war card battles, and
    >mostly produce more realistic results (although that last isn't hard!).
    >--
    >

  9. #29
    Trizt
    Guest

    elven victory?

    Kenneth Gauck wrote:

    > And yet there are more that 2 second level warriors in a unit, also serving
    > a specialized function.
    You will find tthose on the elven side too

    > Shall we reflect on the very meaning of the word
    > muster? This is not a random collection of people.
    Don't forget, the state and the church aren't the same thing, the king
    can't force the priesthood to fight for him, while the other way is
    true.

    > >Don't forget that an army makes alot of sound and during nights you will
    > >hear them from a great distance and those camp fires will be like
    > >lighthouses for the elves.
    > Unless the humans have heard of camp discipline. The Romans certainly knew
    > about it and "there was no pip nor prattle in Pompey's camp."
    Elven scouts would prolly find them anyhow.

    > >> >Don't forget that most sulvan (spl?) creatures are allied with
    > >> >the elves, and some of them have great powers.
    > >> Most are not found away from their dwellings, and are likewise pretty
    > >> uncommon.
    > >They will defend them selves.
    > But they are unlikely to be on the battlefield with an elven army.
    Many unlucky humans could die a long time before reashing the battle
    field.

    //Trizt


    "Let the humans die!"

  10. #30
    Pieter Sleijpen
    Guest

    elven victory?

    Pieter A de Jong wrote:
    > Every elf is classed (MM), they can only be fighters, rangers,
    > wizards, thieves and bards. And every elf meets the attribute
    > requirements to be a wizard.

    Not in my campaign. Most elves are just 0th-level, with a lot of
    proficiencies. That statement just reminds me of D&D, where every elf
    was a fighter/mage.

    Pieter Sleijpen

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