Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19
  1. #11
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    This brings up another question

    Kenneth Gauck wrote:
    > Fourty-Four Fourty or Fight!<

    Course, then again, t'would neither be a fair nor honorable fight for us
    northern barbarians to beat up on a bunch of girlie-men 'cross the '44.

    :D



    Asking for it,
    Dmitri (Bring it ON!) the Destroyer

  2. #12
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    This brings up another question

    Again, Mark, you prove yourself a much better debater than I!

    Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:
    > Actually, the way I see it, the Priests of Belenik are in a somewhat
    > interesting bind.<

    Actually, truthfully, I see BOTH sides in an intereseting bind, and
    that's my dilemna!

    > The rules of Belenik's priesthood are such that, if you
    > DO get into an argument with the local Tsarevo, and he gets mad and chops off your head for crossing him, then that's his right. If you were weak enough to get your head lopped off in a fight with a stinkin Tsarevo, then you don't DESERVE to be Belenik's Priest.<

    This view, of course, is 100% Vos, Grade A goodness! On the other hand,
    wouldn't the Tsarevos be signing his own death warrant for daring to
    stand up to a priest of Belinik? Of course, this is only right in Vos
    society (might makes right), but on the same token its a very, very
    stupid thing for the tsarevos to do! That's the bind - the tsarevos
    can't back down, else his honor is forfeit, nor can he really risk
    slamming the priest because then I would argue the WHOLE priesthood of
    Belinik will hound him to his deathbed; IMPOV, the priests of Belinik
    would never stand to let a non-priest disgrace their cult like that - in
    their eyes, everyone else comes a distant second, no matter how tough
    they are - you obey them (and never make them lose face), or thats it -
    no soup for you! :D

    On the other hand, I think it would be stupid for a priest of Belinik to
    actually go toe to toe with a tsarevos, as this does two things: 1) if
    the priest loses, he will have a very short life span - his Brothers in
    Arms will be the first in line! & (2) it would prove to the locals that
    priests of Belinik aren't all as tough as they are cracked up to be if a
    mere 'warrior' can best a disciple of Belinik, Lord of Strife. Note
    however, that a priest of Belinik MUST provoke stand-offs like this as
    Belinik demands it! "[they] must never back down from a fight (and,
    IMO, must never appear to be weak)." The point is, the priest of
    Belinik ought to have spirtual authority over a clan, so much so that
    the clan warriors will instantly (more like unconsciously or conditioned
    from birth) back the leading priest of Belinik whenever things get
    heated between the two sides. If they didn't, the priests would be able
    to do the Vos equivalent of excommunication for the foolish Vos warrior
    who didn't defend his God in the body of the priest (meaning a slow
    torture and a horrible death). :D

    You see, my problem is that my PC priest of Belinik DID go toe to toe
    with my PC tsarevos - twice. And lost - twice ... in the first session
    playing these characters ... Heh. Which is cool, since these
    ARE Vos we're talking about here, but not so good in that I can't see
    any reason for this unfortunate PC to remain alive - his only hope is if
    he can claim some kind of spiritual obedience from the warriors of the
    tribe (he has already lost any semblence of sympathy from the other PC
    players). I would prefer to give my poor PC a second chance, even if no
    one else in his society will - and I figure that Dmitri would be the
    perfect way for him to gain back some measure of 'dignity' by
    challenging this tyrant in brutal Vos fashion!

    > I think the Tsarevos are the cultural leaders of the Vos, and the priests of Belenik, if they believe it necessary to oppose their Tsarevo, must either work together to provide enough overwhelming force that they cow the Tsarevo into submission (probably pretty rare to get enough priests of Belenik to agree to anything of the sort--only very important reasons would be a sufficient motivation) or to work around the Tsarevo, influencing his fighters against him, provoking duels among his supporters, and generally leading a ground-swell of grass-roots support against the Tsarevo. I think this second option is the one generally used, and interestingly makes the Priests of Belenik into one of the most feared opponents in Cerilia, for it makes them not only strong and brutal and fearless, but also incredibly cunning.<

    I guess I see the priests as the cultural leaders of Vos society, but
    only because it would be them performing the ritual murders before every
    battle and whipping the warriors up into a frenzy, and I bet its the
    priests of Belinik who are the first in line at the front of the battle
    (if some silly Vos warrior got in the way, I can see them cutting the
    silly warrior down first!). By extension, I figure this would filter
    down into the everyday life of Vos culture as well. But I also
    appreciate the above arguement that they must also work around the
    tsarevos and either have to band together as a priesthood or cultivate
    the loyalty of the troops.

    But I've always imagined that the Temple of Might and the One True
    Church of Vosgaard was rather unified in practice (sadly, and
    ironically, unlike the churchers of Haelyn I might add! Woo hoo! I
    love BR!). Ergo, so too are the priests of these churchers, and
    therefore they are a huge cult-like entity that drives the engine of Vos
    society. Whereas I see the tsarevos as a mutlitude of petty tyrants
    squabbling amongst themselves (and its chiefly this reason that the Vos
    aren't as big a threat as they could be), Vos priests are not. They are
    one big, bullying gang of cutthroats! I concluded then, being the the
    priesthood (along with Kriesha's adherents) are relatively unified
    compared to the warrior clans, they could push the individual tsarevos'
    around with ease (within reason).

    What does everyone else think? Warrior or priest, who has cultural
    authority?

    Cheers,
    Darren

  3. #13
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    This brings up another question

    Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:
    >However, if the priest outright challenges the Tsarevo, then as the challenged the Tsarevo can pick the time of the fight, and thus can buy himself time to get his own priest to cast protection spells on him to help even the stakes.<

    GAHHH!!! If I was the DM here, I would punish these two COWARDS!
    MAGIC?!?!?!? Kripes! GRRRRR!!! Belinik would slay BOTH of them for
    suggesting such a thought.

    First, as Belinik, I would never grant that stinking priest even one
    measly 1st level spell for *preparing* himself for a battle! This is
    anathema to priests of Belinik! Burst blood vessels in the brain -
    thats all the preparation one needs!!! :D

    Secondly, a warrior who hides behind protective spells is no warrior AT
    ALL! He is no better than those stinkin' Brecht or those lily-livered
    Anuireans! Even goblins will fight properly!

    Heh - actually, I think that's why my PC priest lost big time in the
    first duel with the PC tsarevos - I didn't grant him any spells! Hah!
    If he can't fight, then he don't deserve to live! Right? :) The
    second fight I gave in, and allow spells (since my PC tsarevos I figured
    was overstepping his bounds here), but unfortunately for the PC priest,
    the tsarevos made all his saving throw rolls ... poor guy ... :)

    Cheers,
    Darren (who is likin' the Vos more and more every day!)

  4. #14
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    This brings up another question

    the Falcon wrote:
    > Somehow, a warrior "they just one day happened upon" and "their leader" just don't sound quite the same... If they'd just happened upon some warrior, it seems to me they would side with the priest. Otherwise, my best bet would be on their leader. After all, he is their _leader_...<

    Oopss. good point. I meant to say warrior, in all cases.

    Cheers,
    Darren

  5. #15
    Samuel Weiss
    Guest

    This brings up another question

    >Kenneth Gauck wrote:
    > Fourty-Four Fourty or Fight!<

    Course, then again, t'would neither be a fair nor honorable fight for us
    northern barbarians to beat up on a bunch of girlie-men 'cross the '44.

    :D



    Asking for it,
    Dmitri (Bring it ON!) the Destroyer<

    You are just upset because you are going to be stuck with Prince Chuck for
    life, while we get rid of Bill in another 2 years.
    You know you all wish we had gone north and made you all decent upstanding
    states.

    Giving it,
    Samwise the Imperialist

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Nether-Netherland
    Posts
    309
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    This brings up another question

    > First, as Belinik, I would never grant that stinking priest even one
    > measly 1st level spell for *preparing* himself for a battle! This is
    > anathema to priests of Belinik! Burst blood vessels in the brain -
    > thats all the preparation one needs!!! :D

    Bullshit. Belinik may want his priests to be ruthless, but he doesn't
    want them to be fools. True Strife can only be obtained by proper
    planning.

    > Secondly, a warrior who hides behind protective spells is no warrior AT
    > ALL! He is no better than those stinkin' Brecht or those lily-livered
    > Anuireans! Even goblins will fight properly!

    Most protective spells aren't really that visible, so the warrior in
    question could just have himself boost up by various spells without any
    layman noticing. Why, they would only see his might as confirmation that
    he is truly a great warrior! Belinik has never forbidden his worshippers
    to be devious.

    - the Falcon

  7. #17
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    This brings up another question

    the Falcon wrote:
    he is truly a great warrior! Belinik has never
    forbidden his worshippers to be devious.<

    I reverse my arguements that you rebutted. Your right - after I thought
    about it yesterday, I don't think Belinik would be so stingy on the
    spell-giving. What better way to prove your might than by pretentious
    displays of power! I will make amends to my PC priest of Belinik!

    Apologies for arguing with ya too Mr. VanD!

    Cheers,
    Darren

  8. #18
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    This brings up another question

    On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Jim Cooper wrote:

    > the Falcon wrote:
    > he is truly a great warrior! Belinik has never
    > forbidden his worshippers to be devious.<
    >
    > I reverse my arguements that you rebutted. Your right - after I thought
    > about it yesterday, I don't think Belinik would be so stingy on the
    > spell-giving. What better way to prove your might than by pretentious
    > displays of power! I will make amends to my PC priest of Belinik!
    >
    > Apologies for arguing with ya too Mr. VanD!

    Hey you NEVER have to apologize for arguing with me. The world would be
    entirely too boring if EVERYONE agreeded with me (although I admit some
    days I'm ready to give it a try).

    I guess the way I see the priesthood of Belenik is colored somewhat by my
    picture of them as priests of the god of STRIFE. In fact, I don't really
    think they actually have a priesthood, as such, as much as just a bunch of
    priests, who occasionally get well-enough organized by a priest with
    enough bloodline and charisma to organize them into a holding. However, I
    see no reason why Strife wouldn't be characteristic among their own
    brotherhood as well. I see the priests of Belenik hating each other only
    slightly less than they hate the local Tsarevo.

    I see Belenik priests pretty much as outside the culture--above it, sure;
    directing and influencing it, certainly; but no one invites his local
    priest of Belenik over for a nice dinner of an evening, either. Of course,
    no one would dream of not inviting him if the occasion was public, like a
    party or a celebration, but you want him around on a regular basis the way
    you want to cuddle up to a giant scorpion. I suspect that the priests of
    Belenik spend much of their time between wars tucked in their little Dens
    of Testosterone with the young, unmarried men of the village/tribe, and a
    few particularly devout older followers, rather than rubbin' elbows with
    the unwashed. Either that or at the Tsarevo's court attempting to get the
    next war started.

    On the other hand, I think the people really like their Tsarevos. Maybe
    love is too strong a word, but they respect them and follow them
    willingly. The Tsarevo is one of them, walks among them, is the person
    they go to if they have a problem. He's the guy who decided whether they
    will fight or not, and with whom, and who divvies up the loot afterwards.
    He is the one who is really looking out for their best interests. Because
    if he isn't then some young upstart will challenge him for his position.

    I suppose my biases are because of the first Belenik Priest I ever
    created, a NPC to run the Temple of Might in Osoerde. He ended up being
    the real source of all the chaos and strife in Osoerde, even though that
    wasn't how I intended it to go when I was planning my campaign. He was a
    mean, ruthless, cunning old bastard, and my players hated him not because
    he was such an excellent warrior (he wasn't--that was why he had to leave
    Vosgaard), but because he was so good at getting them to fight amongst
    themselves and their allies. He was cunning and deceptive, which you might
    not think of as prime requirements for a Priest of Belenik, but man was he
    good at causing STRIFE.

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  9. #19
    Jeff Dunnett
    Guest

    This brings up another question

    Give me old big ears anyday over old zipperboy.

    Jeff




    - ---Samuel Weiss wrote:
    >
    > >Kenneth Gauck wrote:
    > > Fourty-Four Fourty or Fight!<
    >
    > Course, then again, t'would neither be a fair nor honorable fight
    for us
    > northern barbarians to beat up on a bunch of girlie-men 'cross the
    '44.
    >
    > :D
    >
    >
    >
    > Asking for it,
    > Dmitri (Bring it ON!) the Destroyer<
    >
    > You are just upset because you are going to be stuck with Prince
    Chuck for
    > life, while we get rid of Bill in another 2 years.
    > You know you all wish we had gone north and made you all decent
    upstanding
    > states.
    >
    > Giving it,
    > Samwise the Imperialist
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with
    the line
    > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    >

    __________________________________________________ _______
    DO YOU YAHOO!?
    Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Hello, and a question
    By faultline in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-04-2009, 01:56 AM
  2. Unearthed Arcana and what it brings to the table
    By ecliptic in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 100
    Last Post: 03-30-2004, 02:30 PM
  3. This brings up another question ...
    By Jim Cooper in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-10-1999, 01:29 AM
  4. Question...
    By veryfastperson@juno.com in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-26-1998, 02:17 PM
  5. Thanks and another question
    By Bryan Palmer in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-24-1998, 10:04 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.