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Thread: This brings up another question
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02-10-1999, 02:54 AM #1David Sean BrownGuest
This brings up another question
> In your opinion, who do you think commands more respect in Vos society -
> the clan leader (warriors), or a priest(s) of Belinik (regardless of
> whether or not said priests can actually cast spells)?
>
I think you need to decide exactly what you mean...respect for deed and
might, of respect from fear...while both clan leaders and priests of
belenik command respect for both reasons, I think the general populace of
the Vos society respects their Tsaveros more out of respect for their
deeds, while preiests command respect out of fear. Vos are a tough brutal
peoples, and from what I've seen, the priests seem to be the most brutal
of all...and have the backing of the church across the whole region to
back them up..they got their position through the favor of Belenik (and
some classy assasinations no doubt) while the wariors had to do it the
hard way..stepping on the throats of their enemies (and a few friends) to
gain any position they achieve....just a few thoughts anyway..
Sean
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02-10-1999, 07:17 AM #2Jim CooperGuest
This brings up another question
David Sean Brown wrote:
> I think you need to decide exactly what you mean...respect for deed and might, of respect from fear...while both clan leaders and priests of
> belenik command respect for both reasons, I think the general populace of the Vos society respects their Tsaveros more out of respect for their
> deeds, while preiests command respect out of fear.<
Mmmm, very good point. I think, though, that I just want a first
impression, more of a 'on the spot' impression.
Basically, given no prior knowledge of either individual, irregardless
of their individual achievements and merits, who would a commoner side
with - the warrior or the priest, when one is arguing with the other?
Warrior is the obvious favourite class of Vos society, but who would a
Vos person listen to first, if they just one day happened upon a priest
and a warrior arguing on the road, so to speak? Their leader or their
priest?
Basically, in Vos society I think one earns respect for deeds and might
BECAUSE of the fear of the brutally of their leader's actions. This is
why I currently favour the position that Belinik priests would instantly
garner respect, on first impression, whereas other 'mundanes' must earn
it in a Vos persons' eyes first, relatively speaking ... Granted, I
don't see priests of Belinik actually doing a lot of great and mighty
deeds, but their feriocity, brutality, and foam at the mouth more than
makes up for the actual (lack of) deeds in comparison to a warrior who
is (relatively) more capable of actually doing great deeds and such (in
game terms). I don't think that last part came out just right, but ...
well, thats the best I can do this late!
Hope that helps ...
Cheers,
Darren
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02-10-1999, 07:49 AM #3
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This brings up another question
The ever dubious Canuck known mostly as 'Jim Cooper' , who might actually tell us all who 'Jim' really is one day, wrote:
[sniperooskie!]
> who would a commoner side
> with - the warrior or the priest, when one is arguing with the other?
AKKKK!!! I'd hate to be this unlucky Vos!!!! Man what a fix! Obey the warrior and live to tell another Brecht slaying tale, there by risking the
wrath of Belenik and the church of Vosgaard. Or listen to the priest, receive much praise and favour from the church, only to have your head lopped
of for bruising the ego/honour of the warrior..... man.... what a good time for a goblin invasion.
> Warrior is the obvious favourite class of Vos society, but who would a
> Vos person listen to first, if they just one day happened upon a priest
> and a warrior arguing on the road, so to speak? Their leader or their
> priest?
I think most Vos fancy themselves skilled warriors, and so while they may have a personal 'respect' for the warrior in question, I think most Vos
would feel that they could at least defend themselves (and possibly die honourably at the hands of a greater warrior) from him. While a priest
wields great, powerful and mysterious magics. How to defend yourself from the wrath of a God? You can't, no matter how sharp your war spear is.
You can always stab the warrior dead (if only by luck), but slight the priest, and your soul will be Azrai fodder!
> Basically, in Vos society I think one earns respect for deeds and might
> BECAUSE of the fear of the brutally of their leader's actions. This is
> why I currently favour the position that Belinik priests would instantly
> garner respect, on first impression, whereas other 'mundanes' must earn
> it in a Vos persons' eyes first, relatively speaking ... Granted, I
> don't see priests of Belinik actually doing a lot of great and mighty
> deeds, but their feriocity, brutality, and foam at the mouth more than
> makes up for the actual (lack of) deeds in comparison to a warrior who
> is (relatively) more capable of actually doing great deeds and such (in
> game terms). I don't think that last part came out just right, but ...
> well, thats the best I can do this late!
I agree with much of what you have said here big D! I do not think the priest would earn instant respect though. The fighter would I think (even
more so since he has the nerve, or stupidity depending on your PoV), as he is something most Vos can relate to on a personal level. The priest would
receive instant obedience I think, but not necessarily respect. The Vos in question could probably care less about the priest as a person, but since
he has the power of a God behind him, this is what drives the average man to obedience.
I have always thought fear was a natural form/condition of respect, but as I think on this, it seems to me that there is a distinct difference
between the two. You can fear the priest for what the God will do to you, but still, you need not respect the priest at all. I think of Judge
Frollo (sp?) in the Notre Dame story (I'm speaking of the animated Disney one here, having just watched it with my kids this morning....) :0
Frollo would be a fine example of a priest who has power & authority like a Belenik priest might, but do you actually respect him?? No. You do fear
him though, and obey him because of this fear. The good Captain though, you respect, because of what he stands for, for what he has accomplished.
Anyway, that's the way I see it.
Morg (the 'can I graduate to senior vice president of the Arinienbae Canuck mad man club yet Darren???')
- --
"I hate it when my brain stem hurts."
The New Draftmine Repository:
http://members.home.net/morgramen/index.html
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02-10-1999, 09:48 AM #4Kenneth GauckGuest
This brings up another question
Without claiming any views on the Vos per se, I think it is always more
interesting (and dramatic) if the views of the people are always divided on
who deserves the greater respect. For that reason I would say some would
immediatly tend toward the priestly, and others the warriors, and that for
one to predominate they're message must conform with the needs and goals of
the community.
The more complex the society, the more loyalties should be divided between
local and realm authority, the holder of the land, the law, the guilds, the
temples, even for some the sources, and possibly other instituitions as
well.
Kenneth Gauck
c558382@earthlink.net
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02-10-1999, 11:02 AM #5Jim CooperGuest
This brings up another question
My Faithful War Comrade wrote:
> The ever dubious Canuck known mostly as 'Jim Cooper' , who might actually tell us all who 'Jim' really is one day<
Mwuhahaaaa!!! No one will EVER know! HAHAHA!!! Never! NEVER!!! :D
> I agree with much of what you have said here big D! I do not think the priest would earn instant respect though. The fighter would I think (even more so since he has the nerve, or stupidity depending on your PoV), as he is something most Vos can relate to on a personal level. The priest would receive instant obedience I think, but not necessarily respect. The Vos in question could probably care less about the priest as a person, but since he has the power of a God behind him, this is what drives the average man to obedience.<
This is very true - I stand corrected. Thanks, Keith! :) Good example
too (but, I hated that Disney movie - not at ALL like the book, and
totally like as IF anyone would act the way those characters did!)
> Morg (the 'can I graduate to senior vice president of the Arinienbae Canuck mad man club yet Darren???')<
Weeelllll ... that depends. You see, being as I'm on this side of the
continent, and being that Victoria is *right* on the water here - and
being that WotC HQ is in territory what we Canuck clubbers ought to have
as our rightful claim (those damn Yankees SO tricked us into giving them
dat dere Oregon territory, when everyone knows its belonged to us!) -
we first must establish who has supremacy in this little part of the
world. Now, since WotC hasn't coughed up even ONE measly little iota of
information on whether or not BR will ever see the light of day again,
this gives us the perfect reason to storm their little piddely gaming
fort down there in Rent'n Warshington. Don't ya agreee mon ami?!? So,
first ya have to be willing to cause death, pillage, and mayhem.
'Course, the second part requires that ya be not right in the head -
which is tougher than it looks :D - but then again, being as how you've
already agreed ta be my apprentice, this shows ya have promise! :D
Lastly, ya have to worship Da MAN, Mr. Tim Nutting! :) (He has
honorary membership in our little Canuck fan club - which means he gets
first dibs on all da girls we capture down dere in Warshington ---
, so wez kinda have to be nice ta him).
P.S Lastly - youse also must erect a shrine to Ms. Bebris, being as I
made a promise to worship her too! Verily, making a webpage devoted to
her would even be better, so if you can do that, then you can forget
everything I just said and skip right to being VP guy! ;)
(Don't forget to put my name up on there somewhere!)
:D
(Okay, okay, its 3 in the morning! Give me a break!) :D
Cheers,
Darren
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02-10-1999, 11:21 AM #6Kenneth GauckGuest
This brings up another question
Fourty-Four Fourty or Fight!
Kenneth Gauck
c558382@earthlink.net
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Cooper
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - This brings up another question ...
>those damn Yankees SO tricked us into giving them
>dat dere Oregon territory, when everyone knows its belonged to us!) -
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02-10-1999, 02:36 PM #7Mark A VandermeulenGuest
This brings up another question
On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Jim Cooper wrote:
> Mmmm, very good point. I think, though, that I just want a first
> impression, more of a 'on the spot' impression.
>
> Basically, given no prior knowledge of either individual, irregardless
> of their individual achievements and merits, who would a commoner side
> with - the warrior or the priest, when one is arguing with the other?
> Warrior is the obvious favourite class of Vos society, but who would a
> Vos person listen to first, if they just one day happened upon a priest
> and a warrior arguing on the road, so to speak? Their leader or their
> priest?
Actually, the way I see it, the Priests of Belenik are in a somewhat
interesting bind. The rules of Belenik's priesthood are such that, if you
DO get into an argument with the local Tsarevo, and he gets mad and chops
off your head for crossing him, then that's his right. If you were weak
enough to get your head lopped off in a fight with a stinkin Tsarevo, then
you don't DESERVE to be Belenik's Priest. If a commoner came up a hill to
a Tsarevo arguing with a Priest he would side with whoever was left
breathing once the argument was over. The commoner would not intervene, in
fact I think both parties would be very angry with the commoner if he DID
intervene, and thus preventing their god-granted right to prove their
inherent superiority on the body of their detractor.
I think the Tsarevos are the cultural leaders of the Vos, and the priests
of Belenik, if they believe it necessary to oppose their Tsarevo, must
either work together to provide enough overwhelming force that they cow
the Tsarevo into submission (probably pretty rare to get enough priests of
Belenik to agree to anything of the sort--only very important reasons
would be a sufficient motivation) or to work around the Tsarevo,
influencing his fighters against him, provoking duels among his
supporters, and generally leading a ground-swell of grass-roots support
against the Tsarevo. I think this second option is the one generally used,
and interestingly makes the Priests of Belenik into one of the most feared
opponents in Cerilia, for it makes them not only strong and brutal and
fearless, but also incredibly cunning.
Or at least that's my view of the Vos.
Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu
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02-10-1999, 02:47 PM #8Mark A VandermeulenGuest
This brings up another question
Oh, and another thought along these lines,
I think it's perfectly acceptable for a Tsarevo to challenge a priest to a
duel, and perfectly acceptable for a priest to challenge a Tsarevo to a
duel. However, there's some strategy involved as well. Perhaps I should
say "provoke" a duel rather than challenge. If a priest can prepair
himself, cast protection spells and such about him, and THEN go into the
presence of the Tsarevo and provoke a challenge, then he can fight the
Tsarevo with the advantage of magick on his side. If the Tsarevo provokes
a challenge from the priest, then he can fight right away before the
priest has time to cast his magick. However, if the priest outright
challenges the Tsarevo, then as the challenged the Tsarevo can pick the
time of the fight, and thus can buy himself time to get his own priest to
cast protection spells on him to help even the stakes.
Mark
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02-10-1999, 02:57 PM #9
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This brings up another question
> Basically, given no prior knowledge of either individual, irregardless
> of their individual achievements and merits, who would a commoner side
> with - the warrior or the priest, when one is arguing with the other?
> Warrior is the obvious favourite class of Vos society, but who would a
> Vos person listen to first, if they just one day happened upon a priest
> and a warrior arguing on the road, so to speak? Their leader or their
> priest?
Somehow, a warrior "they just one day happened upon" and "their leader"
just don't sound quite the same... If they'd just happened upon some
warrior, it seems to me they would side with the priest. Otherwise, my
best bet would be on their leader. After all, he is their _leader_...
Just a few words...
- the Falcon
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02-10-1999, 09:00 PM #10Jim CooperGuest
This brings up another question
Kenneth Gauck wrote:
> Fourty-Four Fourty or Fight!<
Heh. Tell me about it! :)
The sad part is - we gave up without a fight! DAMN!!! Gah! After
Frontenac gave youse Amerikans such a whuppin', you'd think we at least
woulda had a brawl or two across the '44!
:D
Foaming at the mouth,
Dmitri the Destroyer (Biting the shaft of my battle-axe!!!!! Grrrrr)
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