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Thread: ? on Tuornen

  1. #1
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    ? on Tuornen

    Hi everybody!

    I question a question for all you good listers! This has been bothering
    me ever since I got the Turonen sourcebook several years ago.

    What the heck is that darn cryptic rhyme refer to, at the bottom on page
    3? Here it is:

    One thin supper In the worm's pot
    One still dreamer On a cold bed
    Two wan candles In a pyre hot
    Two dire brothers On a field dead

    Now I'm not so dense as to not see the connection with Tuornen, Alamie,
    and Dalton and Berric. But this is just history - what is the
    significance for Mad Maeve to bring up this again? Is it a warning for
    the present regent not to repeat history? Is there an adventure waiting
    to happen? Help!

    Cheers,
    Darren

  2. #2
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    ? on Tuornen

    On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Jim Cooper wrote:

    > Hi everybody!
    >
    > I question a question for all you good listers! This has been bothering
    > me ever since I got the Turonen sourcebook several years ago.
    >
    > What the heck is that darn cryptic rhyme refer to, at the bottom on page
    > 3? Here it is:

    Well, I wouldn't mind having a go at dissecting it.

    > One thin supper In the worm's pot

    There are a couple of possible double meanings here. For one, a "supper"
    can be a meal, or the person who is eating the meal, who is "supping."
    Thus, a thin supper can refer to a poor meal, or a famished person. As
    far as the worm's pot goes, there are a number of possiblities. Worm could
    also be Wyrm, another more usual alternative word for dragon (and their
    relatives). Thus, the Wyrm's Pot could be the dragon's meal, or it could
    be pot as in "pot o' gold," the dragon's treasure. It could also be the
    more common type of worm, in which "worm's pot" may refer to a coffin.
    Thus it might refer to some treasure in a burial grave (if you can make a
    "thin supper" into a treasure of some kind). I also seem to remember that
    the "Warlock of the Stonecrowns" is a dragon of some kind, and he has some
    form of evil relic in the shape of a cauldron.
    For the sake of proceeding, I'll pick an interpretation and run with
    it, so I can build on it later. It sounds like a prophecy of some kind, so
    I'll make it into an event: a poor man discovering a dragon's hoard
    (perhaps the Warlock's), and becoming fabulously wealthy.

    > One still dreamer On a cold bed

    The first interpretation of this is a dead leader. The leader was
    apparently a dreamer of some sort, perhaps a priest, or an influential
    member of the nobility, maybe an ambassador or close relative to a regent.
    Or perhaps an artist. A "cold bed" is a usual term for someone who has
    died, but their are other shades of meaning that we could read into it.
    For example, it could be cold because he dies somewhere to the north, or
    in the mountains, or just anywhere away from home. A "cold bed" might also
    mean marital troubles. I'll make this into an event as well: a priest of
    Laerme killed treacherously by her own spouse. Note that this gives a
    "cold bed" i.e. the absence of the spark of passion, a third meaning, as
    Laerme is also the goddess of love.

    > Two wan candles In a pyre hot

    The third line in a four line prophecy must be the crux, because the
    fourth line will give the outcome of the prophecy if the circumstances of
    the third line are not changed. As expected, the third line here is the
    most obscure. The players are apparently the "two candles," and the action
    or the setting in which they interact is a "pyre hot." A pyre describes a
    fire that is set for the purposes of destruction, and hot indicates that
    it is passionate, and could easily get out of control--that it is likely
    to burn until all the fuel is expended. The candles are the really curious
    part, and the fact that they are wan (i.e. pale or weak) even in the midst
    of a roaring flame. Playing on the double meanings for fire I mentioned in
    the previous paragraph, I would probably make the line mean something
    like this: the candles are "bearers of the flame" of Laerme. Perhaps they
    are two priests of Laerme, or two bards (for whom Laerme is their muse),
    who fight over the succession when the "dreamer" mentioned above is
    killed. Their feud ignites a hot pyre. More on this below.

    > Two dire brothers On a field dead

    Most obviously, this refers to Dalton and Berric, as you suggested. But it
    could easily refer to two other brothers, or it could refer to the realms
    of Dalton and Berric, Tuornen and Alamie. Or, it could refer to both on
    different levels. On the field dead calls to mind a battlefield where many
    people, including the two brothers, are killed. But it could also refer to
    death on a very wide or encompassing field (i.e. "the killing fields").
    Perhaps the destruction of an institution, or a nation, or a royal family.

    So one way to make this into an adventure, would be as such. The PC's
    aquire the prophecy (even though they may not recognize it as such). In a
    strategic location between Tuornen and Alamie lies an important fief,
    which was founded in the past by an adventurer who killed a dragon and
    made off with his treasure. That same adventurer (or perhaps one of his
    sons) also founded a Bardic College which is now pretty influential in the
    two countries. However, one of the realm's enemies knows this as well, and
    is planning on using this as a flashpoint to renew the hostilities between
    the two. (Take your pick as to who: Rhoubhe, Gorgon, Boeruine, Avan,
    Ghoere, Warlock...) The Bardic College is currently lead by a very
    respected Priestess of Laerme, who has been influential in diffusing some
    of the tensions between the two lands. This priestess is then killed after
    the corruption of her husband by one of the enemy's henchmen (probably
    henchwoman), and two of the most powerful bards come foreward to claim the
    succession. However, each is really more concerned with power than in
    doing what is really right or following the will of Laerme (thus they are
    "wan candles"). The clearest succession, that selected by the previous
    leader, is called into doubt by evidence that he might have been involved
    in the murder. Further, the two candidates have connections with opposite
    sides of the border, and are likely to retreat to their kin if pressed,
    further inflamming the situation. Basically, the PC's need to figure out
    the mystery (who done killed the priestess), and diffuse the situation
    before it starts up active war between the two states again.

    At least thats probably how I'd handle it. The possibilities are probably
    close to endless (that's why its a good prophecy--no one really knows
    what its all about until its all over, or at best, when they are in the
    middle of the events). When the PC's finally figure things out, they will
    feel immensely clever, especially if it suddenly "comes to them" in one of
    those beautiful epiphanies.

    Does that help at all?

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  3. #3
    DKEvermore@aol.co
    Guest

    ? on Tuornen

    In a message dated 2/7/99 2:21:42 AM Central Standard Time,
    Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca writes:

    > Now I'm not so dense as to not see the connection with Tuornen, Alamie,
    > and Dalton and Berric. But this is just history - what is the
    > significance for Mad Maeve to bring up this again? Is it a warning for
    > the present regent not to repeat history? Is there an adventure waiting
    > to happen? Help!
    >
    Heh, heh, it's all yours to develop!

    - -DKE

  4. #4
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    ? on Tuornen

    Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:

    Mark! Great to 'see' you're back! :D

    > When the PC's finally figure things out, they will feel immensely clever, especially if it suddenly "comes to them" in one of those beautiful epiphanies.
    >
    > Does that help at all?<

    *ROTFL*
    HAHAHAHAHAAHAAAA!!! HAHAHAHAHAAHHAAAA!!!! That was hilarious! That
    made my day, Mark! Thanks!

    I just gotta ask: you're still a graduate student, no? Lets see,
    probably in your 2nd or 3rd year by now, right? Boy, oh, boy, those
    were the days, weren't they my friend!!! Ahh, university days, the fun
    and joy I had! :D I can remember the days when I had to stretch out a
    thesis into a 25 page essay once a month during my last 2 years of uni -
    they turned out into dissertations like you've never seen before!
    *MROTFL* Actually, I probably used that same analysis
    that you proposed about Laerme and a little love triangle for my essay
    when I argued about Femininism in Japan in the early 20th century! :D
    (Thank Haelyn, with psychiatric help, I've managed in blocking out most
    of my life in uni ...) ;D

    Thanks for the detailed analysis Mark! I'll figure out some way to use
    your adventure idea in my campaign - mucho gracias!

    Cheers,
    Darren

  5. #5
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    ? on Tuornen

    DKEvermore@aol.com wrote:
    > Heh, heh, it's all yours to develop!<

    DOH! Thanks, big guy!

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