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Thread: ? on Tuornen
02-07-1999, 05:49 AM #1Jim CooperGuest
? on Tuornen
I question a question for all you good listers! This has been bothering
me ever since I got the Turonen sourcebook several years ago.
What the heck is that darn cryptic rhyme refer to, at the bottom on page
3? Here it is:
One thin supper In the worm's pot
One still dreamer On a cold bed
Two wan candles In a pyre hot
Two dire brothers On a field dead
Now I'm not so dense as to not see the connection with Tuornen, Alamie,
and Dalton and Berric. But this is just history - what is the
significance for Mad Maeve to bring up this again? Is it a warning for
the present regent not to repeat history? Is there an adventure waiting
to happen? Help!
02-08-1999, 07:48 PM #2Mark A VandermeulenGuest
? on Tuornen
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Jim Cooper wrote:
> Hi everybody!
> I question a question for all you good listers! This has been bothering
> me ever since I got the Turonen sourcebook several years ago.
> What the heck is that darn cryptic rhyme refer to, at the bottom on page
> 3? Here it is:
Well, I wouldn't mind having a go at dissecting it.
> One thin supper In the worm's pot
There are a couple of possible double meanings here. For one, a "supper"
can be a meal, or the person who is eating the meal, who is "supping."
Thus, a thin supper can refer to a poor meal, or a famished person. As
far as the worm's pot goes, there are a number of possiblities. Worm could
also be Wyrm, another more usual alternative word for dragon (and their
relatives). Thus, the Wyrm's Pot could be the dragon's meal, or it could
be pot as in "pot o' gold," the dragon's treasure. It could also be the
more common type of worm, in which "worm's pot" may refer to a coffin.
Thus it might refer to some treasure in a burial grave (if you can make a
"thin supper" into a treasure of some kind). I also seem to remember that
the "Warlock of the Stonecrowns" is a dragon of some kind, and he has some
form of evil relic in the shape of a cauldron.
For the sake of proceeding, I'll pick an interpretation and run with
it, so I can build on it later. It sounds like a prophecy of some kind, so
I'll make it into an event: a poor man discovering a dragon's hoard
(perhaps the Warlock's), and becoming fabulously wealthy.
> One still dreamer On a cold bed
The first interpretation of this is a dead leader. The leader was
apparently a dreamer of some sort, perhaps a priest, or an influential
member of the nobility, maybe an ambassador or close relative to a regent.
Or perhaps an artist. A "cold bed" is a usual term for someone who has
died, but their are other shades of meaning that we could read into it.
For example, it could be cold because he dies somewhere to the north, or
in the mountains, or just anywhere away from home. A "cold bed" might also
mean marital troubles. I'll make this into an event as well: a priest of
Laerme killed treacherously by her own spouse. Note that this gives a
"cold bed" i.e. the absence of the spark of passion, a third meaning, as
Laerme is also the goddess of love.
> Two wan candles In a pyre hot
The third line in a four line prophecy must be the crux, because the
fourth line will give the outcome of the prophecy if the circumstances of
the third line are not changed. As expected, the third line here is the
most obscure. The players are apparently the "two candles," and the action
or the setting in which they interact is a "pyre hot." A pyre describes a
fire that is set for the purposes of destruction, and hot indicates that
it is passionate, and could easily get out of control--that it is likely
to burn until all the fuel is expended. The candles are the really curious
part, and the fact that they are wan (i.e. pale or weak) even in the midst
of a roaring flame. Playing on the double meanings for fire I mentioned in
the previous paragraph, I would probably make the line mean something
like this: the candles are "bearers of the flame" of Laerme. Perhaps they
are two priests of Laerme, or two bards (for whom Laerme is their muse),
who fight over the succession when the "dreamer" mentioned above is
killed. Their feud ignites a hot pyre. More on this below.
> Two dire brothers On a field dead
Most obviously, this refers to Dalton and Berric, as you suggested. But it
could easily refer to two other brothers, or it could refer to the realms
of Dalton and Berric, Tuornen and Alamie. Or, it could refer to both on
different levels. On the field dead calls to mind a battlefield where many
people, including the two brothers, are killed. But it could also refer to
death on a very wide or encompassing field (i.e. "the killing fields").
Perhaps the destruction of an institution, or a nation, or a royal family.
So one way to make this into an adventure, would be as such. The PC's
aquire the prophecy (even though they may not recognize it as such). In a
strategic location between Tuornen and Alamie lies an important fief,
which was founded in the past by an adventurer who killed a dragon and
made off with his treasure. That same adventurer (or perhaps one of his
sons) also founded a Bardic College which is now pretty influential in the
two countries. However, one of the realm's enemies knows this as well, and
is planning on using this as a flashpoint to renew the hostilities between
the two. (Take your pick as to who: Rhoubhe, Gorgon, Boeruine, Avan,
Ghoere, Warlock...) The Bardic College is currently lead by a very
respected Priestess of Laerme, who has been influential in diffusing some
of the tensions between the two lands. This priestess is then killed after
the corruption of her husband by one of the enemy's henchmen (probably
henchwoman), and two of the most powerful bards come foreward to claim the
succession. However, each is really more concerned with power than in
doing what is really right or following the will of Laerme (thus they are
"wan candles"). The clearest succession, that selected by the previous
leader, is called into doubt by evidence that he might have been involved
in the murder. Further, the two candidates have connections with opposite
sides of the border, and are likely to retreat to their kin if pressed,
further inflamming the situation. Basically, the PC's need to figure out
the mystery (who done killed the priestess), and diffuse the situation
before it starts up active war between the two states again.
At least thats probably how I'd handle it. The possibilities are probably
close to endless (that's why its a good prophecy--no one really knows
what its all about until its all over, or at best, when they are in the
middle of the events). When the PC's finally figure things out, they will
feel immensely clever, especially if it suddenly "comes to them" in one of
those beautiful epiphanies.
Does that help at all?
02-08-1999, 10:05 PM #3DKEvermore@aol.coGuest
? on Tuornen
In a message dated 2/7/99 2:21:42 AM Central Standard Time,
> Now I'm not so dense as to not see the connection with Tuornen, Alamie,
> and Dalton and Berric. But this is just history - what is the
> significance for Mad Maeve to bring up this again? Is it a warning for
> the present regent not to repeat history? Is there an adventure waiting
> to happen? Help!
Heh, heh, it's all yours to develop!
02-08-1999, 11:00 PM #4Jim CooperGuest
? on Tuornen
Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:
Mark! Great to 'see' you're back! :D
> When the PC's finally figure things out, they will feel immensely clever, especially if it suddenly "comes to them" in one of those beautiful epiphanies.
> Does that help at all?<
HAHAHAHAHAAHAAAA!!! HAHAHAHAHAAHHAAAA!!!! That was hilarious! That
made my day, Mark! Thanks!
I just gotta ask: you're still a graduate student, no? Lets see,
probably in your 2nd or 3rd year by now, right? Boy, oh, boy, those
were the days, weren't they my friend!!! Ahh, university days, the fun
and joy I had! :D I can remember the days when I had to stretch out a
thesis into a 25 page essay once a month during my last 2 years of uni -
they turned out into dissertations like you've never seen before!
*MROTFL* Actually, I probably used that same analysis
that you proposed about Laerme and a little love triangle for my essay
when I argued about Femininism in Japan in the early 20th century! :D
(Thank Haelyn, with psychiatric help, I've managed in blocking out most
of my life in uni ...) ;D
Thanks for the detailed analysis Mark! I'll figure out some way to use
your adventure idea in my campaign - mucho gracias!
02-08-1999, 11:03 PM #5Jim CooperGuest
? on Tuornen
> Heh, heh, it's all yours to develop!<
DOH! Thanks, big guy!
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