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Thread: Elven Nobility

  1. #1
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    Elven Nobility

    Jim Cooper wrote:
    >
    > the Falcon wrote:
    > >
    > > > Okay, but then the regent of, for example, Ariya (a paladin) gets the shaft since he can't cast realm spells himself and couldn't use his louies to cast them either...
    > >
    > > So? A paladin gets regency from provinces _and_ law holdings _and_
    > > temples. That would seem quite enough of an advantage. If he wants to cast realm spell, he should've studied to be a priest. Tough luck.<
    >
    > Here, here! One of my favorite strategies is to make the PC regent of
    > Talinie a paladin and see him squirm ... Mwuhahahaa. :)
    >
    > Indeed, this is one aspect of BR that I found most satisfying from TSR -
    > a willingness to show that not everything has to be cut and dry, by the
    > book to a player's wishes ... I am a firm believer in making players
    > work like dogs to accomplish their heroism! And having NPC's face the
    > same pitfalls just seems proper!
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Darren
    >
    > ************************************************** *************************
    > > I have a quick question for you fine people. I've been a ghost on the
    board for a while now, and finely decided to post. What are the titles
    for elven nobility? RoE mentions Prince,ect. So does it follow the king
    prince, archduke theme or are there differences?

    Learic

  2. #2
    Kai Beste
    Guest

    Elven Nobility

    > I have a quick question for you fine people. I've been a ghost on the
    > board for a while now, and finely decided to post. What are the titles
    > for elven nobility? RoE mentions Prince,ect. So does it follow the king
    > prince, archduke theme or are there differences?

    There are huge differences. The way I picture the Sidheghlien (sp?),
    they don't have the same kind of aristocracy humans do. Well, there
    may be some noble houses, but their power is based more on tradition
    then on bloodlines (one of the books mentions an elven house that
    happens to be completely unblooded). Elves don't make the same
    distinction between nobility and commoners as the humans do.
    There is little official information on this. The following info is
    from the "Guide to Pointy-eared Dandelion Eaters" (Tuarhievel
    sourcebook for all you elf lovers out there).
    Male regents take the title prince, so as not to overshadow Queen
    Tuar, the founder of Tuarhievel. Female rulers take the title queen.
    The regent is advised by the Council of the Moon, where each of the
    noble houses is represented, though the book doesn't say anything
    about their rights.

    laters

    Kai

  3. #3
    DKEvermore@aol.co
    Guest

    Elven Nobility

    In a message dated 1/29/99 12:35:45 AM Central Standard Time,
    z43215@intcomm.net writes:

    > I have a quick question for you fine people. I've been a ghost on the
    > board for a while now, and finely decided to post. What are the titles
    > for elven nobility? RoE mentions Prince,ect. So does it follow the king
    > prince, archduke theme or are there differences?
    >
    > Learic

    Tuarhievel mentions this briefly. Heads of households, I believe are Lord
    this or Lady that. Rulers of nations depends on the nation. In Tuarhievel
    (who still venerates their founder, Queen Tuar) male rulers are Princes and
    female Queens. This is because they wish to respect Queen Tuar's ancient
    position by never giving a greater title to any elven ruler than Queen.

    In general, the regents appear to be Royal Wizard, Lord or Lady, Prince, Queen
    and King. I don't think they have as extensive a title system as the other
    human kingdoms.

    - -DKE

  4. #4
    Ben
    Guest

    Elven Nobility

    >
    >> I have a quick question for you fine people. I've been a ghost on the
    >> board for a while now, and finely decided to post. What are the titles
    >> for elven nobility? RoE mentions Prince,ect. So does it follow the king
    >> prince, archduke theme or are there differences?
    >>
    >> Learic
    >
    >Tuarhievel mentions this briefly. Heads of households, I believe are Lord
    >this or Lady that. Rulers of nations depends on the nation. In Tuarhievel
    >(who still venerates their founder, Queen Tuar) male rulers are Princes and
    >female Queens. This is because they wish to respect Queen Tuar's ancient
    >position by never giving a greater title to any elven ruler than Queen.
    >
    >In general, the regents appear to be Royal Wizard, Lord or Lady, Prince,
    Queen
    >and King. I don't think they have as extensive a title system as the other
    >human kingdoms.
    >
    >-DKE


    Hmmm... In Coullabhie, the ruler is called "Protector" and there is also the
    head wizard called the "Sayer". It's also a hereditary title, if I'm not
    mistaken.


    Ben

  5. #5
    Kenneth Gauck
    Guest

    Elven Nobility

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

    - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE4B8D.85063100
    Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    >I have a quick question for you fine people. I've been a ghost on the
    >board for a while now, and finely decided to post. What are the titles
    >for elven nobility? RoE mentions Prince,ect. So does it follow the king =

    >prince, archduke theme or are there differences?

    It is clear that the elves were patterned after a Celtic model in this =
    respect. Lets look to Ireland then. There was a High King of Ireland, =
    who had his seat at Tara and controlled the province of Meath. Then =
    there were four lessor kings, Ulster, Munster, Leinster, Connaught. =
    Their title is often translated as prince (as in Tuarhievel) to =
    distinguish them from the High King.

    Members of the nobility was known as Tiarna or Ard Tiarna (Lord or =
    Paramount Lord in English translation. =20

    If we note the differences between Irish and Anglo-Norman nobility, =
    among the differences we see are:
    a.. Gaelic titles were (and still are) passed on by tanistry instead of =
    primogeniture=20
    b.. Gaelic feudal titles have only a very rudimentary system of =
    precedence (Tiarna, Ard Tiarna, Prince, Prince of a Royal House)=20
    c.. The Gaelic feudal lords enjoyed a more independent status than that =
    of their Anglo-Norman counterpart

    The rule of tanistry (or thanistry, as in thane) had long determined the =
    descent of authority within a clan, It held that "succession to an =
    estate or dignity was conferred by election upon the 'eldest and =
    worthiest' among the surviving kinsmen." Candidates for this honor were =
    males within the circle of kin called the derbfine all the relatives =
    within the span of four generations. By the rule of tanistry, one man =
    among that group was chosen to head the family: he who was strongest, =
    toughest and most cunning. This principle became an invitation to =
    violent conflict, and the question was often settled by a trial of =
    strength and cunning. The winner became the elder of his family or clan, =
    and was honored with deference and deep respect. The losers were =
    degraded and despised if they were lucky. In ancient days they were =
    sometimes murdered, blinded or maimed. As such, it was a source of that =
    violence, for it was a way of promoting elders who had the strength and =
    cunning to defend their families, and command respect. But those elders =
    who were unable to do so became a danger to their people. They were =
    degraded and even destroyed. Here was yet another custom by which the =
    culture of the Britons adapted itself to conditions of chronic disorder. =
    By the rule of tanistry, families, clans and even kingdoms gained strong =
    leaders who were able to protect them....

    I would suggest that in its full effect, such a practice would not exist =
    outside the Hunt of the Elves.

    Kenneth Gauck
    c558382@earthlink.net


    - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE4B8D.85063100
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable






    &gt;I have a quick question for you fine people. I've been a ghost =
    on=20
    the&gt;board for a while now, and finely decided to post. What are =
    the=20
    titles&gt;for elven nobility? RoE mentions Prince,ect. So does it =
    follow the=20
    king &gt;prince, archduke theme or are there differences?
    &nbsp;
    It is clear that the elves were patterned after a Celtic model in =
    this=20
    respect.&nbsp; Lets look to Ireland then.&nbsp; There was a High King of =

    Ireland, who had his seat at Tara and controlled the province of =
    Meath.&nbsp;=20
    Then there were four lessor kings, Ulster, Munster, Leinster, =
    Connaught.&nbsp;=20
    Their title is often translated as prince (as in Tuarhievel) to =
    distinguish them=20
    from the High King.
    &nbsp;
    Members of the nobility was known as Tiarna or Ard =
    Tiarna=20
    (Lord or Paramount Lord in English translation.&nbsp; =

    &nbsp;
    If we note the differences between Irish and Anglo-Norman nobility, =
    among=20
    the differences we see are:

    Gaelic titles were (and still are) passed on by tanistry instead of=20
    primogeniture=20
    Gaelic feudal titles have only a very rudimentary system of =
    precedence=20
    (Tiarna, Ard Tiarna, Prince, Prince of a Royal House)=20
    The Gaelic feudal lords enjoyed a more independent status than that =
    of their=20
    Anglo-Norman counterpart
    &nbsp;
    The rule of tanistry (or thanistry, as =
    in thane)=20
    had long determined the descent of authority within a clan, It held that =

    &quot;succession to an estate or dignity was conferred by election upon =
    the=20
    'eldest and worthiest' among the surviving kinsmen.&quot;&nbsp; =
    Candidates for=20
    this honor were males within the circle of kin called the derbfine all =
    the=20
    relatives within the span of four generations. By the rule of tanistry, =
    one man=20
    among that group was chosen to head the family: he who was strongest, =
    toughest=20
    and most cunning. This principle became an invitation to violent =
    conflict, and=20
    the question was often settled by a trial of strength and cunning. The =
    winner=20
    became the elder of his family or clan, and was honored with deference =
    and deep=20
    respect. The losers were degraded and despised if they were lucky. In =
    ancient=20
    days they were sometimes murdered, blinded or maimed.&nbsp; As such, it =
    was a=20
    source of that violence, for it was a way of promoting elders who had =
    the=20
    strength and cunning to defend their families, and command respect. But =
    those=20
    elders who were unable to do so became a danger to their people. They =
    were=20
    degraded and even destroyed. Here was yet another custom by which the =
    culture of=20
    the Britons adapted itself to conditions of chronic disorder. By the =
    rule of=20
    tanistry, families, clans and even kingdoms gained strong leaders who =
    were able=20
    to protect them....
    I would suggest that in its full effect, such a practice would not =
    exist=20
    outside the Hunt of the Elves.
    &nbsp;
    Kenneth Gauck
    c558382@earthlink.net
    &nbsp;

    - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE4B8D.85063100--

  6. #6
    Trizt
    Guest

    Elven Nobility

    Brian wrote:

    > I have a quick question for you fine people. I've been a ghost on the
    > board for a while now, and finely decided to post. What are the titles
    > for elven nobility? RoE mentions Prince,ect. So does it follow the king
    > prince, archduke theme or are there differences?

    IMHO elves don't really use titles like the humans, the title
    prince/prinsess is just used for mark a person as a leader (army,
    traders, ...). The title king/queen are used for the leader of a larger
    region as a country. You don't inherit your title, you must earn it.


    //Trizt

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