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  1. #1
    Alexander MacLeod
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    Diplomacy, Decree, and Routine

    The Falcon wrote:

    >Sending a diplomatic mission to a foreign country is included as an
    >example.
    >Clearly, this diplomatic mission cannot accomplish something that can
    be
    >done with a Diplomacy action. So what _can_ it do, then?

    I think that if one regent, say Count Talbehr of Muden, uses a
    Diplomacy action to negotiate a border dispute with another regent, say
    the Swordhawk, after they have jointly destroyed the nation of Treucht,
    the Swordhawk can use a Decree action to send a diplomatic mission to
    Muden in his place, while he personally leads his armies into Rhulgard.
    This allows for Talbehr's 10 GB court to awe the Swordhawk's
    minions during the diplomatic talks (which the rules say can generate a
    bonus), but the men from Massenmarch will still try to get the best deal
    for their lord.

    Alexander

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  2. #2
    Jim Cooper
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    Diplomacy, Decree, and Routine

    the Falcon wrote:
    > So what _can_ it do, then?

    IMC, a full fledged diplomacy action is a public, full court affair,
    done with all the pomp and regalia a court can provide. This kind of
    action is on par with official state visits, and must include the
    regent(s) in question or their duly appointed representatives (such as a
    chamberlain or marshal). On the other hand, all other kinds of
    diplomacy are simply a matter of decree - these include anything which
    does not require public or official knowledge, such as secret
    agreements, military alliances (when the rulers don't require that they
    be announced) many trade matters (this is why TRs can be closed with a
    decree), revisions in tax policies, changes in minor ranks of nobility,
    etc. In fact, in order for regents IMC to actually DO a diplomacy
    action, requires that they announce it with a decree action (thus
    maintaining the random event sequence you already acknowledged).

    > Also, how far can you go with routine communication?

    Routine communication is anything that does not require a regent action
    to perform; thus, if you can say that XX action could conceivably cover
    this thing the regent wants to do, its best that you actually make them
    perform the required action and not let them get away without spending
    one of their action 'slots'. Being the DM, however, you can do whatever
    you feel like of course. :D

    > What matters can only be done or solved with a Diplomacy action?

    VIM (very important matters) like: vassalage agreements between regents;
    accepting surrender of a conquered domain; marriages between VIPs;
    certain investiture ceremonies; and all those other really important
    official actions.

    Cheers,
    Darren

  3. #3
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    Diplomacy, Decree, and Routine

    > I think that if one regent, say Count Talbehr of Muden, uses a
    > Diplomacy action to negotiate a border dispute with another regent, say
    > the Swordhawk, after they have jointly destroyed the nation of Treucht,
    > the Swordhawk can use a Decree action to send a diplomatic mission to
    > Muden in his place, while he personally leads his armies into Rhulgard.
    > This allows for Talbehr's 10 GB court to awe the Swordhawk's
    > minions during the diplomatic talks (which the rules say can generate a
    > bonus), but the men from Massenmarch will still try to get the best deal
    > for their lord.

    Lemme see if I get this right. So, if someone uses a Diplomacy action on
    you and you don't want to use you one yourself to reply, you must use a
    Decree to reply instead. However, if you do reply personally with a
    Diplomacy action, both regents do not need to bid regency. Right?

  4. #4
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    Diplomacy, Decree, and Routine

    > I think that if one regent, say Count Talbehr of Muden, uses a
    > Diplomacy action to negotiate a border dispute with another regent, say
    > the Swordhawk, after they have jointly destroyed the nation of Treucht,
    > the Swordhawk can use a Decree action to send a diplomatic mission to
    > Muden in his place, while he personally leads his armies into Rhulgard.
    > This allows for Talbehr's 10 GB court to awe the Swordhawk's
    > minions during the diplomatic talks (which the rules say can generate a
    > bonus), but the men from Massenmarch will still try to get the best deal
    > for their lord.

    Oh, and one more question: how do you determine success if one regent
    replies to another regent's diplomatic Decree with a diplomatic Decree
    also?

  5. #5
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    Diplomacy, Decree, and Routine

    > Routine communication is anything that does not require a regent action
    > to perform; thus, if you can say that XX action could conceivably cover
    > this thing the regent wants to do, its best that you actually make them
    > perform the required action and not let them get away without spending
    > one of their action 'slots'. Being the DM, however, you can do whatever
    > you feel like of course. :D

    Can you perhaps give some examples of what diplomatic affairs you _can_ do
    by routine communication?

  6. #6
    Alexander MacLeod
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    Diplomacy, Decree, and Routine

    Falcon wrote:
    > Lemme see if I get this right. So, if someone uses a Diplomacy >
    action on you and you don't want to use one yourself to reply, you >
    must use a Decree to reply instead. However, if you do reply
    > personally with a Diplomacy action, both regents do not need to bid >
    regency. Right?
    > Oh, and one more question: how do you determine success if one
    > regent replies to another regent's diplomatic Decree with a
    > diplomatic Decree also?

    The way I see it, when a regent uses a Diplomacy action, he is
    performing diplomacy in his own realm with either ambassadors or regents
    from other domains. This is why his court costs and palace size affect
    his Diplomacy action. Whether or not both regents are present, I still
    think they can both bid regency to alter the outcome in their favor.
    As to the second question, I don't think one could initiate
    diplomacy with a simple Decree action. If a DM did want to allow this,
    there would be no need for a Diplomacy domain action, but I'd say that
    neither regent could bid RP, and that an opposed success roll be used.
    Whichever regent rolled the highest success would "win". However, since
    there are NO regents personally involved in this Decree-Decree form of
    diplomacy, all sorts of things could go wrong and all sorts of people
    could interfere, without either regent being there to do anything about
    it!

    Alexander "the Rjurik Necromancer"

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  7. #7
    Kenneth Gauck
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    Diplomacy, Decree, and Routine

    I use the following guidelines:

    Diplomacy: Any action that requires preperation and planning to communicate
    with other entities.

    Decree: Any communication that is factual and requires no responce from
    another entity.

    Regular Communication: In societies which have already developed the
    diplomatic apparatus of the Rennaisance (Anuire, Brectür, Khinasi) it is
    possible to appoint permenent agents to facilitate regular communication
    through intermediaries (not direct communcation).

    There are three kinds of permenent agents:
    1) unnoficial agents, who do not have access to the court, are not
    established by a diplomacy action, and are merely in contact with friendly
    factions in the court. While it is possible to communicate with the
    resident court by this means, information recieved is filtered through the
    court faction that is friendly to you. You don't learn what they don't
    know, and their opinions will color your information.
    2) resident ambassadors, who are welcomed by friendly courts to coordinate
    against common enemies. They are established by a diplomacy action, are
    themselves a part of the host's court and see and hear for themselves.
    However, they the host controls their access and will not invite them to
    court every day. So, while they see and hear for themselves, they also see
    and hear what their host wants them to see. However, they also have more
    contact with the court, and from a great portion of the court, since they
    are a welcomed representative. So, information about the court's other
    activities does reach them and from enough different sources that, while
    they may not always see and hear for themselves, they can form a fairly
    accurate picture.
    3) by the end of the Rennaisance and the beginning of the Baroque era, we
    begin to see resident ambassadors in every court, both friend and potential
    foe. IMC this era has not yet occured. It will begin with realms that are
    locked in a long dynastic struggle and engage in alot of diplomacy, namely
    Avanil and Boeruine. It will spread slowly from there to other realms.

    IMC resident ambassadors only exist where the books specify a close
    relationship between realms, unnoficial agents exist where realms have vital
    interests but are not close. Players may then place whatever kind of
    diplomats they like where every they are able.

    Kenneth Gauck
    c558382@earthlink.net

  8. #8
    Jim Cooper
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    Diplomacy, Decree, and Routine

    the Falcon wrote:
    > Can you perhaps give some examples of what diplomatic affairs you _can_ do by routine communication?<

    Let me see:

    - -Agreeing to the marriage of two minor nobles between domains/provinces.
    - -Setting the toll along a bridge between provinces.
    - -Arranging a time to adjudicate a meeting time/judgement WITHOUT making
    it public.
    - -Starting negotiations between two domains - "nothing official, Sir,
    just feeling where things lie." Just talk, really, nothing discussed,
    not face-to-face.
    - -Inviting guilder X to trade in your domain - nothing official, just
    word of mouth - the honor system.

    Would you like more?

    Cheers,
    Darren

  9. #9
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    Diplomacy, Decree, and Routine

    First of all, I want to thank everyone who responded to my dilemma. Your
    thoughts are greatly appreciated.

    Secondly, here is how I am going to do diplomatic affairs in my campaign:

    DIPLOMACY
    The Diplomacy action is basically a diplomatic proposal to another regent
    and an invitation to come discuss it in the active regents court. There
    are four possible responses to this:
    1. The target regent says no. The active regent sees his Diplomacy
    action wasted, but does not loose any additional RP or GB beyond the
    initial 1 RP + 1 GB needed to initiate the Diplomacy action. End of story.
    2. The target regent says yes. Whatever the proposal was, the target
    regent has completely approved of it as is. This is the most desirable
    for the active regent, since it means a succesful Diplomacy action
    which costs him only the initial RP and GB for Diplomacy.
    3. The target regent uses a Decree action to send an emissary to the
    active regent's court with a counter-proposal. Bidding of RPs (and GBs
    for the active regent) ensues. The active regent then rolls for success,
    adding any court bonuses or penalties he might have. Success means the
    active regent gets the deal as he proposed. Failure means the target
    regent gets his way.
    4. The target regent decides to use a Diplomacy action to go to the court
    of the regent who initiated the diplomacy in person and conduct
    negotiations himself. Both regents need not bid or roll for success.
    Instead, the negotiations are solved via role-play.

    DECREE
    The Decree action can be used to send an emissary with a diplomatic
    proposal to another regent. Decree can not be used to solve diplomatic
    affairs that can only be accomplished by a Diplomacy action, as
    listed in the Rulebook. There are three possible responses to a
    diplomatic mission sent by Decree:
    1. The target regent says no. The proposal is rejected. Pure and simple.
    2. The target regent says yes. The proposal is accepted as is.
    3. The target regent uses a Diplomacy action to respond to the other
    regents ambassador in person. The encounter is role-played. No bidding
    or success roll is necessary.

    ROUTINE COMMUNICATION
    Routine communication cannot be used to do diplomatic proposals, only to
    ask permission from another regent to do certain actions. Asking
    permission to move troops through another regents realm or to establish a
    trade route in another regents domain are examples of this. There are
    three possible responses to this:
    1. The target regent says no. Permission denied.
    2. The target regent says yes. Permission granted.
    3. The target regent says no for now, but states he will take a Diplomacy
    action as soon as possible to discuss the circumstances under which he
    will be happy to say yes. The regent who asked for permission now has to
    wait for the other regent to take a Diplomacy action to discuss his
    compensation in return for saying yes.

    As always, regents are free to ignore any agreements they've made with
    other regents. Breaking treaties, however, is a surefire way to become
    very unpopular. :)

    - the Falcon

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