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Thread: Rule Province

  1. #1
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    I would like to put forth a suggestion, slightly modified, which Don E had from the royal library, to change the Rule Province action.

    A province has two numbers associated with it, province level and points towards next level. A human province needs 3xfuture province level in points to go up 1 province level.
    Each spring every province goes up 1 point.
    Raiding a province or an occupying army can can damage the number of points a province has, and if points drop below 0 a provinces level goes down. A 4(2) which loses 3 points drops to a 3(11), one point less than is needed to become a 4th level province.
    Mustering a unit from a province takes away a point, while succesfully disbanding a unit in a province adds a point.
    A rule province action can add any number of points a regent wants. The DC is 10 + 2xpoints to be added, and costs 1 GB per point. A rule province can also be a realm action, following standard rules.
    Other races have a different points/level ratio. Goblins are 2/1, Dwarves 4/1 and Sidhelien 5/1.

    The pros are more realistic. Makes the time and GB needed to raise a province levels greater, but also means that so much isn't going to ride on one role when it comes to higher level provinces. It provides a greater role for raiding and occupying provinces over the long run, as enemies can get more golden eggs out without destroying the goose.

    The main con is that it is much more complicated, and maybe not worth the effort. Though I would add that a simple spreadsheet could greatly simplify it, especially the yearly increase.
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    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    Many people do not game with a running computer handy, so saying all that is required is a simple spreadsheet is really saying "you need a computer."

    In general, I'm opposed to incremental levels of ruling provinces, in part because it is a drastic departure from the original BR domain rules, and in part because most BR players I know already complain about the level of detail involved with the BRCS rules. This is especially true with larger domains, which is a point where I'd like to see the domain rules continue to function rather than get bogged down in a morass of details.

    I think Don E's proposal was realistic in portraying how real domains might grow through intentional investment by the ruler. Here, however, I'm willing to compromise realism for the more dramatic (and simplified) effect of the existing system - adding in my own proposal from before, that of limiting Rule Province to 1/season and limiting a single province's growth to 1 level per year.

    The other good reason of keeping closer to the original and BRCS rules is the ease of compatibility and a shortened learning curve for the massive majority of BR players and DM's - let's face it, this work is being produced mainly for those who are already BR fans. New converts will always remain something of a minority with a web-only project like this.

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    I use a simple house rule for the Rule Province action. It takes a number of domain actions equal to the province's next level to rule it. Example: to rule a province (3) you need to spend four domain actions. You only pay one time, and only make one check. Further, you must make all the actions between a period of at most a year.

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    And it immediately calls into play the drastic difference for elven provinces and forces two different sets of numbers/standards.
    Duane Eggert

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    In a message dated 10/6/04 2:46:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

    brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:



    << Sir Justine wrote:

    I use a simple house rule for the Rule Province action. It takes a number

    of domain actions equal to the province`s next level to rule it. Example: to

    rule a province (3) you need to spend four domain actions. You only pay one

    time, and only make one check. Further, you must make all the actions between a

    period of at most a year.

    >>



    This one sounds simpler to me, althought I`d be tempted to drop the "within a

    year" and require multiple actions.



    Lee.

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    Originally posted by irdeggman@Oct 6 2004, 05:46 AM
    And it immediately calls into play the drastic difference for elven provinces and forces two different sets of numbers/standards.
    Of course all the descriptive material states that their is huge differences between the races when it comes to growth of their populations. It would sort of make sense if the rules reflected this.

    Still I drop my proposal. I do need to think before I start typing and this is much to complex. I do hope my curent DM doesn&#39;t read this, he might blow a thingamaginger when he reads my idea for how to bury him in work.

    I do think that elves and dwarves should have a positive modifier to the DC&#39;s for rule province, while goblins should have a slight negative modifier, to reflect the differences which are apparent in both their current development and all the descriptive text.
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    You are only considering province population. Province level is more than that - it includes the province organization and "civilization" level. While a goblin province may have a greater population, they are likely to be squabbling and killing each other, while each dwarf in a dwarven kingdom is much more productive than one goblin. So it could be said that every race is equal in the end - what goblins have in numbers, dwarves have in organization, elves have in magical power, orogs have in raw strong etc.
    While I don&#39;t necessarily dislike the idea of racial modifiers for domain actions (like Age of Empires, Master of Orion.. ) maybe it is just not worth the effort.

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    There are several other issues that need to be considered here:

    The rate of population growth. The way the original (withdrawn) proposal reads humans (while the most prolific breeders - except for maybe goblins have a lower rate of growth than the races that breed slowere (dwarves and elves).

    Also what happens when another race conquers a province occupied by another race? Should the numbers automatically be adjusted? Too complicated and sliding scales in this case make it jsut too arbitrary, IMO.

    But nice try though.
    Duane Eggert

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    Originally posted by irdeggman@Oct 6 2004, 06:35 PM
    There are several other issues that need to be considered here:

    The rate of population growth. The way the original (withdrawn) proposal reads humans (while the most prolific breeders - except for maybe goblins have a lower rate of growth than the races that breed slowere (dwarves and elves).

    Also what happens when another race conquers a province occupied by another race? Should the numbers automatically be adjusted? Too complicated and sliding scales in this case make it jsut too arbitrary, IMO.

    But nice try though.
    In my heart I know I&#39;m right and you&#39;re wrong, but I lack the time or wherewithral to defend an idea which I have already left to a slow and unwholesome death. :P
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    Originally posted by The Jew@Oct 7 2004, 01:09 AM
    In my heart I know I&#39;m right and you&#39;re wrong, but I lack the time or wherewithral to defend an idea which I have already left to a slow and unwholesome death. :P
    Heh, well THAT certainly paves the way for a productive and constructive forum discussion... :blink:

    The way my GM does it. The Rule Province Domain Action takes up only one round, and not an entire turn (three rounds/months per turn/season).

    BUT, pass or fail, you cannot attempt another Rule Province Action until a number of months equal to the current Province Level.

    This conveniently represents two things at the same time. Firstly, the time interval between attempts cumulatively represents populations growth and displacement, as well as social-economic developement.

    Secondly, it also represents the Leader drafting out a series of proposal and plans to implement control and growth into the province.

    This makes it complex enough that you still need to plan ahead as to when and how your character rules the province, but simple enough that a DM can monitor multiple players very easily.

    Just my two cents worth :lol:

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