Vassalage Arrangements

[Herald Williams]

This may have been discussed before, and if so I apologize in advance
for reopening any cans of worms, but our group has gotten into this
debate recently.

Can a vassalage arrangement allow a regent to collect more RP than his
bloodline strength. E.g., if a regent has a bloodline of 20, but his
domain generates 40 RP every domain turn, can he farm out half of the
domain to a vassal and then require the vassal to return 10 points each
turn, thus allowing him to collect 30 RP?

[Pieter Sleijpen]

Herald Williams wrote:
>
> This may have been discussed before, and if so I apologize in advance
> for reopening any cans of worms, but our group has gotten into this
> debate recently.
>
> Can a vassalage arrangement allow a regent to collect more RP than his
> bloodline strength. E.g., if a regent has a bloodline of 20, but his
> domain generates 40 RP every domain turn, can he farm out half of the
> domain to a vassal and then require the vassal to return 10 points each
> turn, thus allowing him to collect 30 RP?


Yes, I think it was even in Sage Advice. That is one of the benefits of
vassals. Of coarse there is no way to be completely sure of the loyalty
of vassals, so there always is the risk of betrayel.

[Jim Cooper]

Herald Williams wrote:
> Can a vassalage arrangement allow a regent to collect more RP than his
> bloodline strength.<

This is correct (IMC at least).

Cheers,
Darren

[Sindre Berg]

Herald Williams wrote:

> This may have been discussed before, and if so I apologize in advance
> for reopening any cans of worms, but our group has gotten into this
> debate recently.
>
> Can a vassalage arrangement allow a regent to collect more RP than his
>
> bloodline strength. E.g., if a regent has a bloodline of 20, but his
> domain generates 40 RP every domain turn, can he farm out half of the
> domain to a vassal and then require the vassal to return 10 points
> each
> turn, thus allowing him to collect 30 RP?
> *****************************************
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> line
> In my campaign I play it that way at least..Though I can't see why the
vassal should be allowed half the RP :) Anyway what do you others think
about this deal if the vassal also is the Lt of the regent ?

- --
Sindre

Take a look at my homepage and Birthright PBMG at:

www.uio.no/~sindrejb

[Sindre Berg]

JulesMrshn@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 1/3/99 4:13:20 PM Central Standard Time,
> sindre@vision-
> computer.no writes:
>
> In my campaign I play it that way at least..Though I can't see why
> the
> vassal should be allowed half the RP :) Anyway what do you others
> think
> about this deal if the vassal also is the Lt of the regent ? >>
>
> Lt? This would be fine, but the Lt action if called upon would count
> as one
> of the vassal's domain turns (yes, they do get those)
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> line
>
Obviously...I even let the Lts do three actions, as long as only one is
a domain action...They could create a holding and do two adventures f.
inst.
- --
Sindre

Take a look at my homepage and Birthright PBMG at:

www.uio.no/~sindrejb

[JulesMrshn@aol.co]

In a message dated 1/3/99 4:13:20 PM Central Standard Time, sindre@vision-
computer.no writes:

[Sindre Berg]

JulesMrshn@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 1/3/99 4:47:08 PM Central Standard Time,
> sindre@vision-
> computer.no writes:
>
> Obviously...I even let the Lts do three actions, as long as only one
> is
> a domain action...They could create a holding and do two adventures
> f.
> inst.
> >>
>
> No no no
> Vassals get 3 actions since they are now regents.
> *************************************************
> *************************
> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
> line
> Not to be too annoying but I meant the normal Lt's, that is Lt's that
isn't vassals. Vassals since they now are proper regents of course can
do 3 actions like any other regent...The only limiting factor is how
much GB and RP the Liege leaves them..

- --
Sindre

Take a look at my homepage and Birthright PBMG at:

www.uio.no/~sindrejb

[JulesMrshn@aol.co]

In a message dated 1/3/99 4:47:08 PM Central Standard Time, sindre@vision-
computer.no writes:

>

No no no
Vassals get 3 actions since they are now regents.

[Gary V. Foss]

JulesMrshn@aol.com wrote:

> Obviously...I even let the Lts do three actions, as long as only one is
> a domain action...They could create a holding and do two adventures f.
> inst.
> >>
>
> No no no
> Vassals get 3 actions since they are now regents.

I think this depends on how the DM wants to handle things. Personally, I think
we should (and I do) differentiate between a vassal, a lieutenant-vassal, a
lieutenant, a henchman, a follower and a hireling.

Vassal: Traditional regent who pays regency in RP or GB to a liege lord. This
can be an NPC or a PC. He gets 3 actions per domain turn.

Lieutenant: Any blooded or unblooded henchman who has been elevated to the
level of a lieutenant by the Lieutenant action. He gets one free (LT) action
per domain turn.

Lieutenant-vassal: A lieutenant who has been invested with provinces/holdings
by a regent. A LT-vassal gets one (LT) action per domain turn.

Henchman: A leveled NPC companion of a PC who can accompany the PC on
adventures and assist him in all role-playing aspects of the game. They gain
experience points for their actions, and are "played" by the DM as intelligent
creatures.

Follower: Any creature that obeys the orders of a PC and is not paid a salary
for that service. The followers who accompany 10th or higher level rangers,
the followers who gravitate to a cleric, the thieves who gather around a high
level thief are all examples of followers. In BR terms they are very much like
henchmen except they are often not leveled characters and, under the direct
supervision of the PC. They will not act independently except to save their
own lives.

Hireling: Anyone whose services are paid for by the regent. They may accompany
a regent on adventures, but their actions are severely limited much like
followers.

The reason I think we should differentiate between these guys is because they
are often run by the DM and should have different levels of "independence" on
that basis.

In the case of vassals and LT-vassals, however, we have a strange situation in
the BR domain rules. Can a player suddenly double the amount of domain actions
he has available by investing a henchman or LT? I don't think that's the way
it should work. I think LTs should be different from henchmen and henchmen
different from followers. Followers might move up through the "ranks" but
unless some sort of process happens that makes for that transition it could
become a serious gaming problem.

My solution (feel free to modify or ignore) is the above set of definitions. A
henchman is not a LT, for instance. A LT must be created by the domain rules
action. Until that happens a henchman can have no effect upon domain actions
except for the Adventure action. If a PC regent wants to make a henchman a LT
he can do so, but must still spend the action "investing" his new LT with the
"powers" that he must have to effect domain actions. Maybe he is deputized,
appointed, promoted, knighted, ordained, or whatever. In any case, the
Lieutenant action is required to give someone the political powers to act on
the behalf of the regent.

Investing a lieutenant or henchman with holdings or provinces, however, is not
really a much more sophisticated process. The investiture takes a month
(unless one is a priest in which case it is free) and then whamo--new regent.
If that new regent suddenly gets three actions and he is still the henchman of
the PC then he effectively doubles the PC's amount of actions.

The only other option I see is that the LT/henchman is taken over by the DM,
becoming totally NPC. I don't like that, personally, as it seems like a rather
drastic solution. I think the middle ground is having a LT or henchman
invested with a regent's holdings or provinces remains or becomes an LT.

Gary

[Kenneth Gauck]

In my approach, I ask myself, why is someone looking to put a vassal in
place. As I see it there are three reasons:

1) give a fellow PC (or trusted NPC) some role in government. A player does
this because he wants the talented fellow around.

2) because there is too much for the regent to attend to himself. he needs
help.

3) to circumvent the rules on bloodlines limiting RP's taken in.

In case #1, tranfers of RP's should be based on the game situation.
In case #2, trasnsfers should tend to go both ways. A consistant drain from
the vassal to the overlord should produce the kind of resentment that often
acompanies a periphery. People like to keep the resources, be they GB's or
PR's, working for them at home.
To avoid case #3, DM's need to be clear about the motives of the players and
clear in his own expression of what is acceptable. After all these are
still a grant from vassal to overlord, and if things need attention back
home, but the vassal (or overlord) is not concerned about the locals, they
should face a divsetiture crisis.

Kenneth Gauck
c558382@earthlink.net