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  1. #1
    Daniel McSorley
    Guest

    Cultural Progression of Cerilia

    From: Tim Nutting

    >I pictured Diesmaar as being early medieval (c 800 AD - Europe), with the
    >previous half millennia being sort of a dark age (The 500 years predating
    >the 3 year War of Shadow).
    >
    Hmm, like I said, my picture was of an iron-age group, at least for the
    Anuireans (I haven't really thought of any of the others), because of the
    apparent importance of the Tribes, and the houses of the Andu, so I was
    picturing the Visigoths and other tribes at the time of the Romans, with the
    Adurians maybe being the Romans.

    >After Diesmaar, things got chaotic for a few years, and then calmed down.
    >Reole builds the Empire, and it advances to early renaissance by mid 800
    HC.

    I wasn't picturing renaissance here, so much as a mid medieval period,
    perhaps along the lines of France in the 12th or 13th century (? I think
    that's the example I want).

    >Fall of Empire occurs, more dark age, and some recession, so Anuire, at
    >least in my mindset, is just now reaching the stages is might have been at
    >the height of empire technologically, but certainly not culturally (too
    fractured).
    >
    I agree with the period of dark ages here again. However, I think Anuire
    has advanced beyond the fall. The Brechts and Khinasi, once freed of their
    Anuirean overlords, were able to advance culturally, both by themselves and
    with cultural interplay between them, and this filtered back to Anuire. So
    the Brechts are a little ahead of Anuire, into the Renaissance I mean, while
    the Khinasi are a little behind, because they had farther to go, culturally
    at least. Technologically, I'd say they (Anuireans, everybody) are more
    advanced for sure, the crossbows for one, and the fencing styles of the
    Brechts (not to mention the g word) argue for a lot of technological
    advancement since the fall of the Empire (Depending on how advanced you
    think the empire was before it fell). Wouldn't the Anuirean fighting have
    encouraged technology's advance, if not its rapid spread?

    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu

  2. #2
    Pieter Sleijpen
    Guest

    Cultural Progression of Cerilia

    Daniel McSorley wrote:

    > I agree with the period of dark ages here again. However, I think Anuire
    > has advanced beyond the fall. The Brechts and Khinasi, once freed of their
    > Anuirean overlords, were able to advance culturally, both by themselves and
    > with cultural interplay between them, and this filtered back to Anuire. So
    > the Brechts are a little ahead of Anuire, into the Renaissance I mean, while
    > the Khinasi are a little behind, because they had farther to go,
    > culturally at least.

    How can one be behind 'culturally', you know that this is a very
    dangerous thing to say?

    > Technologically, I'd say they (Anuireans, everybody) are more
    > advanced for sure, the crossbows for one, and the fencing styles of
    > the Brechts (not to mention the g word) argue for a lot of
    > technological advancement since the fall of the Empire (Depending on
    > how advanced you think the empire was before it fell). Wouldn't the
    > Anuirean fighting have encouraged technology's advance, if not its
    > rapid spread?
    >

    Aren't the Khinasi more advanced then the Anuireans? They are better
    sailers (their ships are faster and seaworthier then the Anuirean
    versions), value sience and art way above war. Just read the Khourane
    book, the state even supports public schools and every Khinasi is
    supposed to be able to read/write. There are even universities and while
    they cost money, I did not get the impression they were that expansive.
    The Khinasi also lack any of the normal prejudices against magic, even
    the Anuireans are not that open minded about magic (though the Five
    Oaths might help). I always compared the Khinasi with the RL Arabians of
    the 11th century. At time they were far ahead of the Europeans.

    For short I can not believe the Khinasi are a little behind.

    As for the crossbows, the Brechts use them as well. As for other
    apparent differences in weapon technology, that is to my opinion because
    of different styles. The Khinasi favor speed, wearing plate mail and
    loading crossbows is rather difficult on the back of horse. Not to
    mention that a person would cook in a plate mail. The Brechts are
    seamen, wearing heavy armor on a ship is not a very good idea (as one of
    my players found out the hard way).

  3. #3
    Olesens
    Guest

    Cultural Progression of Cerilia

    Daniel McSorley wrote:

    > Wouldn't the Anuirean fighting have
    > encouraged technology's advance, if not its rapid spread?

    I'll agree that it did encourage some advancement. To compare to earth, World
    War One was cause for a lot of advancement in surgery, most notably brain surgry
    (Mostly from the artilery, it's shrapnel was a few large pieces and they'd fly
    around and carve out body parts. They changed the design in WW2 to create lots
    of smaller pieces). WW2 also sped up the creation of nuclear weapons,
    submarienes, and airplanes (the Germans had a jet fighter by the very end of the
    war). But also remember that those are continuous wars and Anuire was involved
    in several shorter skirmishes (by comparison at least). But at 551 MR, there
    doesn't seem much more advancement possible other than guns. They're reached
    the high age of full plate knights and then went on to pikes and bows. If
    gunpowder doesn't exsist in BR (or any low-magic early-ressisance world for that
    matter), we don't know were weapons will go. On Earth, our advancement of
    pointy things to kill each other with was halted in the resissance and guns
    picked up where the pointy things left off. Also remember that a lot of
    technological advance is based on need. A curious culture will be more likely
    to pursure the sciences while a culture constantly at war will follow
    militaristic advancements.

    - -Andrew

  4. #4
    Daniel McSorley
    Guest

    Cultural Progression of Cerilia

    From: Pieter Sleijpen

    >How can one be behind 'culturally', you know that this is a very
    >dangerous thing to say?
    >
    My mistake: I was remembering that the Brechts, Anuireans, elves and
    dwarves were at a Renaissance culture, and my memory for some reason stuck
    the Khinasi in with the Rjurik, in a Middle Ages culture, when this was not
    the case.

    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu

  5. #5
    Kenneth Gauck
    Guest

    Cultural Progression of Cerilia

    There are many markers of the various periods which can be used. Technology
    normally means weapons in BR, but that need not be all. As for cultural
    markers of the Renaissance, one might point to a revival of "classical"
    styles; Imperial in Anuire and Maestian in Khinasi, for example.
    Perspective drawing, stage theater, Imperial law (which was historically a
    big hit irregardless of where the Empire extended, because of its
    orderliness, the Romans being good legislators, perhaps this trait extends
    to Anuire as well) all could be markers of a cultural renaissance.

    In Baruk-Azhik I signaled new innovations in sculpture (it was consciously
    more life-like), poetry (derived from chanting, a traditional dwarven art
    form emphasizing rhythm, but now influenced by elven concepts of melody),
    theater (performance are was formerly limited to tumbling, chanting, or
    resitation), and new styles of dress (the vest and tunic were comming back
    into vogue, replacing trowsers and shirt). Players and NPC's could
    associate themselves with the new ideas, or the traditional by these
    markers.

    Kenneth Gauck
    c558382@earthlink.net

  6. #6
    Tim Nutting
    Guest

    Cultural Progression of Cerilia

    I like that idea, Ken. It's something we see as the years progress in the
    real world, and then just completely miss in gaming.

    Still, I see the Adurians as being the "Romans" of Aebyrnis. Very
    expansive, very militaristic (their god wished to conquer all known
    creation), and rather advanced.

    I think that in the ancient history of the world we would find something
    akin to Rome's expansion into Gaulish lands, perhaps about -2000 HC or some
    other equally distant number. (Remember that humans came to Cerilia
    about -350 HC, some over 250 years earlier, this had been going on for many
    years.)
    Still, by the time the Andu had reached Cerilia, they were still tribal,
    and had probably been forced to learn new armor and weapons or face
    extinction/assimilation at the hands of the Adurians.

    To my mind, though Anuire is classed as a Renaissance culture in the books,
    I extend that only to technology. They are "behind" the Brechts in that
    they still stick to a relatively immobile social hierarchy (which the
    brecths must as well, to a lesser extent - only blood rules the lands), and
    yet I think that the Brechts have a more "refined" culture. Their ideas
    tend to be more complex, and thinking men and women are more encouraged.

    In certain circles of Khinasi this is the same. Ariya, for instance, is
    definitely in what amounts to a Renaissance, though more along the lines of
    a Middle Eastern culture than "traditional" western culture, while Binsada
    is quite behind the times, and still very nomadic.

    Better or worse? Well that depends on where you started at, right?

    later

    Tim Nutting
    zero@wiredweb.com

  7. #7

    Cultural Progression of Cerilia

    OK, a little slow on the draw here.....

    How hard would it be for the Brechts to build cannon for their ships? I am
    picturing here very crude boom sticks, rather large, heavy, expensive, and
    probably not all that accurate. (I remember reading something about this a
    while back, but can't recall if it ever got solved.)

    I know precious little of weaponry & technological advancements etc., but
    really, how long would it take a culture to evolve from a rickety old black
    powder rifle the size of a Canadian moose to a smaller, more compact and
    reliable version? How long until someone decides to put this new magic on a
    ship and shoot some pirates? Also, would a mortar be developed before a
    cannon? If the Brechts create a cannon or flint lock, then how long until
    other cultures begin to show signs of adopting and modifying the technology?

    Wouldn't the actual design & reliability of the weapon be quickly upgraded once
    the initial technology was discovered? Talking in terms of Domain turns (4 a
    year), it is conceivable that a single campaign could easily see 2 or three
    generations of regents, and thus, this development could, would & should be
    easy to identify.
    "I remember back in the old days when we had to fire arrows against the wind
    from atop the mizzen (sp?) mast, in the dark, with nothing but the lightning
    cracks to see by!"

    I don't really want to start the guns thread again, but I have been using gun
    powder in my (non BR) game for several years now. It has not seriously
    unbalanced the game in any way. In fact, the gun wielding players seldom get
    more than one or two shots off before combat anyway, and all's it really serves
    to accomplish is to add a bit of spice and a feeling of impending advancement
    in the game.

    In Warhammer, the Empire has some pretty wacky technology, blended in with
    magic. Now, obviously not BR flavoured, I think the system is, over all, well
    done. It allows for ships cannon to be fired right alongside a fireball.
    Truth to tell, the fireball probably does more damage, but heh, we all got
    cannons on our boats! I should think that the technological advances would be
    merged & blended with the magic (at least initially), similar to what is done
    in the Warhammer game. You probably won't see a flying dwarf gyrocopter
    anytime soon in Cerilia, but you can come up with some pretty weird stuff. Why
    wouldn't the wizard regent take the gun and fuse some of his magical talents
    with the device?

    Happy New Year!

    Keith
    - --
    "I hate it when my brain stem hurts."
    The New Draftmine Repository:
    http://members.home.net/morgramen/index.html

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