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Thread: Diggin Time

  1. #1
    Kenneth Gauck
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    Diggin Time

    Perhaps those persky earthquakes which plague Kiergard since the Gorgon's
    capture of the place would ruin the canal.

  2. #2
    Olesens
    Guest

    Diggin Time

    I was recently looking at a map of Cerilia, specifically how long a trip
    it was from Muden to Avanil or, with a more sinsiter purpose, how far
    from the Gorgon's Crown to the IC by sea. But the Chimeron is bordered
    by a river that penetrates nearly half the way to the Krankenaurich from
    the Gulf of Coernays. A rich regent could dig a cannal across those
    80-90 miles of fairly open and for the most part level terrain. But that
    rich regent would have to be on great terms with Kiergard to be able to
    do this. Maybe, the Gorgon? I know many people feel that the Gorgon's
    goal in attacking Anuire is to reach the IC. Sailing around Rjurik
    would give those Anuireans too much warning. But if the ships were
    first spotted by the regents of Rohrmarch then Osorde, those pesky
    Anuireans would have much less reaction time. So my question to you is:
    how much gold and time would it take to dig a 85 mile cannal deep enough
    to support Caravels through rolling hills with slave labor? I suppose
    they'd need to make locks, as I forsee a diffrence in sea levels. Oh,
    don't forget to factor in the Gorgon's Wizardly power (ie Dig, Move
    Earth, Transmute Rock to Mud, Boulder to Pebble, etc.)

    But for those who prefer to play the more civilized humans, here's an
    idea for a wealthy regent of Wierch. Work with the Khurin-Azure dwarves
    to dig a 50 mile long cannal from the Rhuide River to Aulbrunn. Then
    tax the hell out of the merchants who want to use that waterway. Give
    some gold to the dwarves, of course. And some to any wizard you can get
    to dig or move earth for you.

    - -Andrew

  3. #3
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    Diggin Time

    What a cool idea! I really do not recommend trying to dig a channel
    through the mountains, it will require entirely too many locks. Unless, of
    course, the dwarves dig it under the mountains, to stay at roughly sea level.
    That assumes they want people coming through, but they could make the tolls
    shockingly high. But it would be a LOT safer than the passage north of the
    Highlands. Too bad the upper Ruide River is more or less controlled by the
    Big G himself.
    For the Gorgon to dig across Kiergard to the Khurinlach, however, that is
    more doable. Plenty of (slave) labor available, and more can be imported,
    given the size of his armies. The ground seems fairly flat. I just don't
    know why he would want to, unless he is also constructing a fleet on the
    Krakennauricht. It might be easier to build on the Fhaillalach, and fight
    one's way down the Ruide.
    A guesstimate on the cost: check out the Castle Guide. There, a
    10'x10'x5' moat/channel section takes 6 man-days and 30gp, modified for
    workforce, terrain, and so forth. If we dig it 10' deep and 30' wide (to
    allow caravels, cogs, longships and such, cf. Of Ships and the Sea), that's 36
    man-days and 180 gp for 10' of length. That's roughly 10GB per mile,
    unmodified for terrain and so forth, plus labor costs, locks, turn-arounds,
    bypasses and docks. And he'll need to control the last two provinces, in
    Rohrmarch and/or Baruk-Azhik. Really darn expensive. The dwarven tunnel
    might be cheaper, given their skill. Magic and monsters could help a lot.
    [Math disclaimer: I am doing the multiplication quickly, late at night.
    Accuracy not guaranteed. Given time and encouragement, I could work out some
    more.]
    Mighty cool, but mighty pricey.

    Lee,
    "I'm not a dwarf, but I play one in AD&D."

  4. #4
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Diggin Time

    Olesens wrote:

    > I was recently looking at a map of Cerilia, specifically how long a trip
    > it was from Muden to Avanil or, with a more sinsiter purpose, how far
    > from the Gorgon's Crown to the IC by sea. But the Chimeron is bordered
    > by a river that penetrates nearly half the way to the Krankenaurich from
    > the Gulf of Coernays. A rich regent could dig a cannal across those
    > 80-90 miles of fairly open and for the most part level terrain. But that
    > rich regent would have to be on great terms with Kiergard to be able to
    > do this. Maybe, the Gorgon? I know many people feel that the Gorgon's
    > goal in attacking Anuire is to reach the IC. Sailing around Rjurik
    > would give those Anuireans too much warning. But if the ships were
    > first spotted by the regents of Rohrmarch then Osorde, those pesky
    > Anuireans would have much less reaction time. So my question to you is:
    > how much gold and time would it take to dig a 85 mile cannal deep enough
    > to support Caravels through rolling hills with slave labor? I suppose
    > they'd need to make locks, as I forsee a diffrence in sea levels. Oh,
    > don't forget to factor in the Gorgon's Wizardly power (ie Dig, Move
    > Earth, Transmute Rock to Mud, Boulder to Pebble, etc.)

    Wow. I don't know if I'd even remotely let that happen if I was running a
    campaign. I mean, it looks more like 120-140 miles to me first of all. By way
    of comparison the Panama Canal is a smidgen over 50 miles and the Suez about
    100 miles. Aside from that you are talking about a major engineering feat the
    likes of which Roman aqueducts pale in comparison. There is a "valley" of
    sorts between the Iron Hills and where the Vicissitude Mts. start on that
    Kiergard/Rohrmarch border, but even those two provinces (Coullibaird and Oden)
    are hilly terrain which might mean a couple of miles of elevation. (I'm pretty
    far from being either a cartographer or a geologist, so I don't know exactly
    how much elevation is represented by either of these terrain factors) and I
    think that alone would preclude the possibility of a channel. Again by way of
    comparison, the five locks of the Panama Canal lift/lower ships a grand total
    of about 125 feet.

    If you were going to allow this sort of thing at all (which I wouldn't) I'd go
    to the Netbook and look up the Build: Monument action. I think such an
    endeavor would require as a minimum a "monument" of the largest possible size
    in every province that it was to be constructed in and two (one for the
    channel, one for the locks) in each of the provinces with hilly terrain. Such
    a series of locks would also have to be manned by thousands of people and have
    a massive maintenance cost. Ships are pulled through locks usually, which
    would mean hundreds of horses/mules/whatever doing the tugging.

    All in all, I'd say it would probably be cheaper for the Gorgon to construct
    flying ships rather than a channel linking the Krakkennauricht to the
    Kurinlach.

    > But for those who prefer to play the more civilized humans, here's an
    > idea for a wealthy regent of Wierch. Work with the Khurin-Azure dwarves
    > to dig a 50 mile long cannal from the Rhuide River to Aulbrunn. Then
    > tax the hell out of the merchants who want to use that waterway. Give
    > some gold to the dwarves, of course. And some to any wizard you can get
    > to dig or move earth for you.

    Oooh. Ouch. There you got mountains. That could be miles and miles of
    vertical travel, which I would think would have to be prohibitive. If the
    Panama canal is any example of the kind of engineering this would take you
    would probably need at around 50 locks in order lift or lower a boat 1,000'.
    (I have no numbers on this, but I think the hills in the provinces in
    Kiergard/Rohrmarch are probably higher in elevation than that.) The thing that
    makes this so impractical isn't just the number of locks, its the amount of
    time it takes to travel through them. It used to take two days to travel
    through the Suez Canal, for instance, and that canal has NO locks! If you had
    to stop and go 50 times it could take a good week. I'm not too up on my BR
    seamanship stuff, but I think you can sail around the long way in that amount
    of time.

    Gary

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