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  1. #1

    RP`s by any other name (Was:Dar

    "Majesty" ! That is the term I have been looking for! With your permission Gary, I shall incorporate this into my own campaign. (This has been one of those brain busting, on the edge of your tongue type dilemmas for nearly a week now!!! AAACK! I can
    know sleep at night! :)

    I agree that a character's relative class level should have some bearing on his ability to rule, but at the same time, I think the King of Furyondy could be just as good a King without ever having twenty years of adventuring under his belt. Besides, Royal
    families likely didn't send the heir apparent off to slay fiends and ghouls anyway, that's what the Royal Knights of Myth Drannor are for! (A not so subtle stab at FR....) :)~

    In reply to the most magical fun-ominous Master of Arcane, Darren (and a Canuck to boot!)(though i still haven't found out who "Jim" is...) thoughts regarding the limiting of RP power, I agree as well. The RP limitations of the Bloodline strength are
    there for game balance I think. If I understand correctly, a low bloodline reflects the characters inability to adequately rule (represented by all those excess & wasted RPs the domain generates). Perhaps it is up to the Dm to play this up in the game
    somehow. Simple game mechanics (such as the ability to contest an entire guild domain away in a single domain turn) which some one like Prince Avan can do for example, is a fine example of how capable a ruler he is. If he can get rid of say, El-Hadid in
    three action rounds, while the shining & upstanding citizen, Orthien Tane, cannot even hope to do so. Orthien could still become a King, but he could never 'rule as well or with as much ability' as Avan. Unfortunately, the game does not really reflect
    this line of thought well, as the extra RPs are simple dispersed, and life goes on normally for all involved.

    Here's a thought for non BR campaigns:
    What if the 'Majesty" score was rolled as a regular attribute (max score of 18) and added to the Charisma score? This would give you a maximum of 36 RPs, which seems to be the average level of Bloodlines I think. Someway would have to be created to
    increase your Majesty ability (though I personally prefer low powered bloodlines any-who). Hey! Brain flash! What if the above was used to determine the average Joe's 'Bloodline' score? A man who was 'born to be King' (such as King Arthur) could
    actually 'link' his majesty score with the land, (I have an event similar to Deismaar IMCW just as Gary does, & have also irradiated the land with 'magic') and thus receive the more traditional BR styled manner of ruling & RP collection. (The lay man
    would not actually 'collect' RPs, but instead his majesty score is simply used as a measure of the amount of actions he can perform in any round.) hmmm... needs some work still I think.

    Thoughts?

    Keith
    - --
    "Even the Spider has something to say if you listen long enough."

  2. #2
    Craig Greeson
    Guest

    RP`s by any other name (Was:Dar

    Morg wrote:

    > Here's a thought for non BR campaigns:
    > What if the 'Majesty" score was rolled as a regular attribute (max score of 18) and added to the Charisma score? This would give you a maximum of 36 RPs, which seems to be the average level of Bloodlines I think. Someway would have to be created to
    > increase your Majesty ability (though I personally prefer low powered bloodlines any-who). Hey! Brain flash! What if the above was used to determine the average Joe's 'Bloodline' score? A man who was 'born to be King' (such as King Arthur) could
    > actually 'link' his majesty score with the land, (I have an event similar to Deismaar IMCW just as Gary does, & have also irradiated the land with 'magic') and thus receive the more traditional BR styled manner of ruling & RP collection. (The lay man
    > would not actually 'collect' RPs, but instead his majesty score is simply used as a measure of the amount of actions he can perform in any round.) hmmm... needs some work still I think.

    Greetings all,
    I like the line of thinking you guys are on here, but you kind of lost me.
    What I was envisioning was lowering the "Bloodline" scores for characters,
    and then adding their Charisma + Bloodline in order to figure out how many
    RPs they could gather in a domain turn. Is this where you were going? I
    definitely like the thought that Charisma helps determine how effective a
    ruler can be, and I'm always in favor of giving my BR warrior regents a
    reason not to put their highest ability score on strength (who came up with
    those exceptional strength bonuses, anyway?). This would seem to give
    "official rules" paladins a big advantage, however, since they'd always
    have at least 17 Charisma.

    Would Charisma be appropriate as a determining factor in how many RPs a
    wizard could collect? That doesn't seem to make much sense to me. Maybe
    this "other" component of determining a regent's RP collecting power should
    vary depending on class. For warriors and priests, whose domains depend on
    influencing large #s of people, I'd say it should be Charisma. For wizards
    and guilders, Wisdom might make more sense. The PH describes Wisdom as "a
    composite of the character's enlightenment, judgment, guile, willpower,
    common sense, and intuition." Seems like as good a measure as any to
    determine how much control over magical potential or commerce a character
    could have. Another alternative for wizards could be Constitution.
    Wizards with higher Constitutions would have the ability to control more
    massive amounts of energy coursing through their bodies from the land.

    Regards
    Craig

  3. #3
    JulesMrshn@aol.co
    Guest

    RP`s by any other name (Was:Dar

    In a message dated 11/27/98 8:15:16 PM Central Standard Time,
    morgramen@home.com writes:

    >

    A low bloodline means you rule a smaller realm, or your family just hasn't
    been around as long, or any number of things. The reason why Avan has the
    bloodline he has, is because look at his stature. Contender fro the throne.
    As many players find out after they play in a Birthright game for a while,
    adding to your line is something that is important to expansion. As you
    expand, you need the bigger bloodline to control the realm. You need it. The
    smaller regents, don't need the excess of RPs. They don't need the big time
    bloodline. As they expand, they will fine their domain crumble if that
    bloodline is still low. Sometimes Regents are too big for their britches.
    Any regent who wants staying power will power up that bloodline.

    - -Julian

  4. #4
    Sindre Berg
    Guest

    RP`s by any other name (Was:Dar

    JulesMrshn@aol.com wrote:

    > In a message dated 11/27/98 8:15:16 PM Central Standard Time,
    > morgramen@home.com writes:
    >
    > there for game balance I think. If I understand correctly, a low
    > bloodline
    > reflects the characters inability to adequately rule (represented by
    > all those
    > excess & wasted RPs the domain generates). >>
    >
    > A low bloodline means you rule a smaller realm, or your family just
    > hasn't
    > been around as long, or any number of things. The reason why Avan has
    > the
    > bloodline he has, is because look at his stature. Contender fro the
    > throne.
    > As many players find out after they play in a Birthright game for a
    > while,
    > adding to your line is something that is important to expansion. As
    > you
    > expand, you need the bigger bloodline to control the realm. You need
    > it. The
    > smaller regents, don't need the excess of RPs. They don't need the
    > big time
    > bloodline. As they expand, they will fine their domain crumble if
    > that
    > bloodline is still low. Sometimes Regents are too big for their
    > britches.
    > Any regent who wants staying power will power up that bloodline.
    >
    > -Julian
    > *******
    > ************************************************** *****************
    > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
    > line
    > Here actually comes in a different aspect which I think also reflect the
    RL middle ages pretty good. You use Vassals ! That was what they were
    for.. of course one didn't really have bloodlines in the RW but you
    lacked the means to controle the land properly. And as a matter of fact
    this is what you could say Avan already has done.
    But as a related method would be to hand over part of your domain to
    a vassal to take care of it. You demand he pays back like 80% of his RP
    and you couldn't harness it anyhow. The smart thing would in some cases
    be to give the vassal controle over your orginial domain which after
    some expansion should be a safe place without too much trouble, while
    you the regent concentrate on the new aquisitions.

    - --
    Sindre

    Take a look at my homepage and Birthright PBMG at:

    www.uio.no/~sindrejb

  5. #5
    JulesMrshn@aol.co
    Guest

    RP`s by any other name (Was:Dar

    In a message dated 11/28/98 2:30:09 AM Central Standard Time, sindre@vision-
    computer.no writes:

    >

    This is indeed a good plan. Vassals are an important part of bloodline
    expansion and realm expansion. Infact, without vassals, it is really hard to
    expand that bloodline.
    A suggestion for some vassals is to have them control one provience. This way
    they can handle the ruling up of the provience level/holdings. They can help
    buy having their own smaller army. This can really help smaller and newer
    regents act fast.

    - -Julian

  6. #6
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    RP`s by any other name (Was:Dar

    Morg wrote:

    > "Majesty" ! That is the term I have been looking for! With your permission Gary, I shall incorporate this into my own campaign. (This has been one of those brain busting, on the edge of your tongue type dilemmas for nearly a week now!!! AAACK! I can
    > know sleep at night! :)

    Consider it free intellectual property, Morg. Go right ahead and use it. Of course, I wouldn't mind getting credit from time to time. :)

    > I agree that a character's relative class level should have some bearing on his ability to rule, but at the same time, I think the King of Furyondy could be just as good a King without ever having twenty years of adventuring under his belt. Besides, Royal
    > families likely didn't send the heir apparent off to slay fiends and ghouls anyway, that's what the Royal Knights of Myth Drannor are for! (A not so subtle stab at FR....) :)~
    >
    > Here's a thought for non BR campaigns:
    > What if the 'Majesty" score was rolled as a regular attribute (max score of 18) and added to the Charisma score? This would give you a maximum of 36 RPs, which seems to be the average level of Bloodlines I think. Someway would have to be created to
    > increase your Majesty ability (though I personally prefer low powered bloodlines any-who). Hey! Brain flash! What if the above was used to determine the average Joe's 'Bloodline' score? A man who was 'born to be King' (such as King Arthur) could
    > actually 'link' his majesty score with the land, (I have an event similar to Deismaar IMCW just as Gary does, & have also irradiated the land with 'magic') and thus receive the more traditional BR styled manner of ruling & RP collection. (The lay man
    > would not actually 'collect' RPs, but instead his majesty score is simply used as a measure of the amount of actions he can perform in any round.) hmmm... needs some work still I think.
    >
    > Thoughts?

    Character level+Majesty score works pretty well for me. My problem with using ability scores or a randomly determined Majesty score without basing it on some sort of parental, "non-BR birthright" is that it gifts a player with the ability to rule in a way
    that is very competitive with any other schmoe. If one can collect RPs based on one's charisma or any other ability score even the lowliest peasant could collect an average of 10RP/domain turn. That's the equivalent of ruling the Imperial City of Anuire.
    Call me an elitist scumbag, but I just don't think the average person should be able to become the ruler of the Imperial City and collect as much regency as a 10th level fighter.

    Using character level also works in context of the AD&D gaming system in general, which is level based rather than skill or ability score based. Experience level is the most significant aspect of character after class, even more significant than race IMHO. A
    5th level elven fighter is much more like a 5th level dwarven fighter than he is like a 1st level elven fighter if you ask me....

    Making character level the basis of RP collection also gives rulers an incentive to adventure, which is very important to the game. Some folks may not see this as "realistic" in terms of real world rulers, but I would argue that that interpretation is based
    on a rather narrow view of what an adventure really is. If one sees adventuring as being essentially the traditional AD&D dungeon crawl then, yes, it is unrealistic that a ruler would go on such an adventure. If one broadens one's definition of an adventure,
    however, it makes much more sense. An adventure in AD&D domain terms could be anything from a day spent hunting in the royal forest to a diplomatic mission to a far away land involving intrigues with foreign rulers and battles with monsters during the
    traditional traveling to and from the site of the mission. Picture all the adventure and experience point earning possible by the characters in Frank Herbert's _Dune_ series, and those guys were the rulers of the universe, not just a few provinces somewhere.

    Gary

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