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Thread: Dare I say, 0 level Characters?
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11-27-1998, 07:09 PM #1MANTAGuest
Dare I say, 0 level Characters?
I once had an adventure where the PC´s got their ages reduced by 25 years.
I had to adapt the ability scores. Gave them all thac0 20 and let the
wizard memorize one 1st level spell per day (can´t remember how the cleric
worked...)
I ajusted the scores using this table
Age STR DEX CON INT WIS CHR
0-3 1 or 2 1/3 1/3 1/2 1 or 2 +4
3-6 1/3 -2 1/2 -2 1/3 +3
7-12 1/2 - -1 -1 1/2 +2
13-15 -1 - - - -1 +1
It worked fine for me.
Does this help?
MANTA
ip209007@ip.pt
ICQ: 17080887
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> From: Morg
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Dare I say, 0 level Characters?
> Date: sexta-feira, 27 de novembro de 1998 20:35
>
> I am starting up a new RL campaign (Hopefully it will work better the
> second time around...) Anyway, the basic premise is that each PC will
> start off in different areas of the world, and after completing a few
> minor adventures on their own, will all meet and discover that their'
> destines' (and plot lines) and run in the same direction! (muhahahaha!
> Players never share their solo adventure secrets until it is too
> late...muhahahahahaha!)
>
> OK, great. Now the problem. One of the PCs is only about 12 -14 years
> old when the game starts. He is in the poorest of poor social classes,
> has no family, no money, and has been living on the streets since he was
> a small child. Naturally, he is a thief, but I am not sure that a 12
> year old boy would qualify as having reached 1st level. (He doesn't
> belong to any guilds either.)
>
> Now, I know that the old Greyhawk adventures hard cover had rules for 0
> level PC (hated them.) I'm not sure about Players Option books (but
> from what I have seen of those rank with the GH hardcover).
> I had thought of stating him with 1d3 hps, and only 1/2 the starting
> theif skill points. (He'll get the rest when he does reach 1st
> level...) but this seems like a mechanical nightmare to me.
>
> Anyone got any advice?
>
> On a completely unrelated note, has anyone used Birthright rules in
> their own campaign world conversions? (Greyhawk, home grown worlds,
> etc.) I am thinking that the BR system would still work great in other
> worlds (once all the province & holding levels have been figured out).
> The regency point system could still work as well I believe, even
> without the presence of bloodlines.
>
> Unless I am missing some very important information, the bloodline deal
> is little more than background material. COuld not the RP system be
> based on something else? Charisma & Wisdom perhaps? (Maybe a completely
> new attribute; such as 'rulership'.)
>
> Ideas?
>
> Later...
> Keith
> --
> "I am your humble knight, and I swear allegiance to the courage and
> power in your veins.
> So strong it is, it's source must be Uther Pendragon."
> The Draftmine (Home of the Brass Boar & other Oddities.)
> http://www.angelfire.com/ak/draftmine/
> Brenna's Blood Secret PbeM (A Haven's of the Great Bay PBeM.)
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon/2239/index.htm
>
>
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11-27-1998, 07:35 PM #2
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Dare I say, 0 level Characters?
I am starting up a new RL campaign (Hopefully it will work better the
second time around...) Anyway, the basic premise is that each PC will
start off in different areas of the world, and after completing a few
minor adventures on their own, will all meet and discover that their'
destines' (and plot lines) and run in the same direction! (muhahahaha!
Players never share their solo adventure secrets until it is too
late...muhahahahahaha!)
OK, great. Now the problem. One of the PCs is only about 12 -14 years
old when the game starts. He is in the poorest of poor social classes,
has no family, no money, and has been living on the streets since he was
a small child. Naturally, he is a thief, but I am not sure that a 12
year old boy would qualify as having reached 1st level. (He doesn't
belong to any guilds either.)
Now, I know that the old Greyhawk adventures hard cover had rules for 0
level PC (hated them.) I'm not sure about Players Option books (but
from what I have seen of those rank with the GH hardcover).
I had thought of stating him with 1d3 hps, and only 1/2 the starting
theif skill points. (He'll get the rest when he does reach 1st
level...) but this seems like a mechanical nightmare to me.
Anyone got any advice?
On a completely unrelated note, has anyone used Birthright rules in
their own campaign world conversions? (Greyhawk, home grown worlds,
etc.) I am thinking that the BR system would still work great in other
worlds (once all the province & holding levels have been figured out).
The regency point system could still work as well I believe, even
without the presence of bloodlines.
Unless I am missing some very important information, the bloodline deal
is little more than background material. COuld not the RP system be
based on something else? Charisma & Wisdom perhaps? (Maybe a completely
new attribute; such as 'rulership'.)
Ideas?
Later...
Keith
- --
"I am your humble knight, and I swear allegiance to the courage and
power in your veins.
So strong it is, it's source must be Uther Pendragon."
The Draftmine (Home of the Brass Boar & other Oddities.)
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/draftmine/
Brenna's Blood Secret PbeM (A Haven's of the Great Bay PBeM.)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon/2239/index.htm
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11-28-1998, 12:14 AM #3Jim CooperGuest
Dare I say, 0 level Characters?
My Stupendous Apprentice wrote:
> I am thinking that the BR system would still work great in other
> worlds (once all the province & holding levels have been figured out).
> The regency point system could still work as well I believe, even
> without the presence of bloodlines.
It does - my friend's friend runs a Greyhawk campaign with the BR rules
without any difficulties and NO BLOODLINES.
> Unless I am missing some very important information, the bloodline deal is little more than background material. COuld not the RP system be based on something else? Charisma & Wisdom perhaps? (Maybe a completely new attribute; such as 'rulership'.)
Yes! This is what I have been trying to say all along! In fact, why
does it have to be limited by anything? Why not simply how much a
person controls determines their RP score a turn? An emperor would have
more influence than a lowly vassal knight who controls (perhaps) one law
holding. Yet that emperor could (potentially, however unlikely) collect
just as much RPs as the VK because they have the same bloodline. Whats
worse? This same situation could befall the GORGON! GAH! All right
thinking game designers should take note and never let this come to
pass! :D
Anyways, if there had to be a limiting factor, I would vote for the CHR
stat - finally give it some real worth in the game! :P
Ahem.
(btw, I play BR normally, in case anyone thinks otherwise) :)
(well, okay, I confess, I'm an insane player, but I still *run* a normal
BR campaign!) :P
Cheers,
Darren
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11-28-1998, 12:46 AM #4Gary V. FossGuest
Dare I say, 0 level Characters?
Jim Cooper wrote:
> My Stupendous Apprentice wrote:
> > I am thinking that the BR system would still work great in other
> > worlds (once all the province & holding levels have been figured out).
> > The regency point system could still work as well I believe, even
> > without the presence of bloodlines.
>
> It does - my friend's friend runs a Greyhawk campaign with the BR rules
> without any difficulties and NO BLOODLINES.
> > Unless I am missing some very important information, the bloodline deal is little more than background material. COuld not the RP system be based on something else? Charisma & Wisdom perhaps? (Maybe a completely new attribute; such as 'rulership'.)
>
> Yes! This is what I have been trying to say all along! In fact, why
> does it have to be limited by anything? Why not simply how much a
> person controls determines their RP score a turn? An emperor would have
> more influence than a lowly vassal knight who controls (perhaps) one law
> holding. Yet that emperor could (potentially, however unlikely) collect
> just as much RPs as the VK because they have the same bloodline. Whats
> worse? This same situation could befall the GORGON! GAH! All right
> thinking game designers should take note and never let this come to
> pass! :D
> Anyways, if there had to be a limiting factor, I would vote for the CHR
> stat - finally give it some real worth in the game! :P
Personally, I think character level is a much better determinant of regency power than an ability score. Character level is in some way tied to a character's "power" which is much more closely akin to the magical abilities that bloodline represents.
In my non-BR campaign I allow characters to collect regency based upon their character level. They can then spend RPs to "create" the non-BR equivalent of a bloodline, which I call Majesty. They do not gain blood abilities from this trait, but aside from
that it is handled pretty much like BR blood strength. Certain magic items convey additional Majesty in the same way sielshegh gems do, which allows someone to increase their RP collection and possibly increase their majesty.
NOTE: In my non-BR campaign there was an event like Deismaar which infused the land with magic. Part of my problem with the conversion of the BR domain rules into other, non-BR worlds is that it ignores that RPs are a form of magical energy generated by
the land and the people who live on it. This magical energy can be generated because of the magical nature of the land itself which is directly tied to Deismaar and the magical infusion that the land itelf got when the gods sacrificed themselves. If you
are going to use the BR domain rules in a non-BR campaign I really think you should come up with some sort of explanation for the generation of RPs. The domain rules are very closely tied to the backstory of the BR setting, so using one without the other
leaves a massive gap in the rules.
Gary
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11-28-1998, 11:32 AM #5Pieter SleijpenGuest
Dare I say, 0 level Characters?
Gary V. Foss wrote:
> Personally, I think character level is a much better determinant of
> regency power than an ability score. Character level is in some way
> tied to a character's "power" which is much more closely akin to the
> magical abilities that bloodline represents.
This means that every ruler should be a high lvl character in your
campaign? That does not suite me, many rulers will never adventure or
find the time to train extensively as a warrior. The demands of
rulership or just plain right different from the demands of an
adventurer. Except maybe for the cleric or wizard who can gain
experience by ressearch or the making of magical items. In my eyes a low
or even 0lvl can be just as effective ruler as some high leveled
character.
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11-28-1998, 10:35 PM #6Gary V. FossGuest
Dare I say, 0 level Characters?
Pieter Sleijpen wrote:
> Gary V. Foss wrote:
>
> > Personally, I think character level is a much better determinant of
> > regency power than an ability score. Character level is in some way
> > tied to a character's "power" which is much more closely akin to the
> > magical abilities that bloodline represents.
>
> This means that every ruler should be a high lvl character in your
> campaign? That does not suite me, many rulers will never adventure or
> find the time to train extensively as a warrior. The demands of
> rulership or just plain right different from the demands of an
> adventurer. Except maybe for the cleric or wizard who can gain
> experience by ressearch or the making of magical items. In my eyes a low
> or even 0lvl can be just as effective ruler as some high leveled
> character.
Well, it means that all things being equal a higher level ruler will be better
than a lower level ruler. The Majesty trait in my non-BR campaign is still
worth quite a bit in determining the amount of RPs earned per domain turn. I
handle Majesty pretty much like bloodline in BR, except that it is added to the
character level to determine the amount of RPs generated by the regent and it
does not give the regent blood abilities. An heir to the throne will get the
average of his parent's Majesty scores, so the 1st level son of the Emperor may
have a 30 Majesty score if daddy had a 40 Majesty and mommy had a 20. That
makes him a more effective ruler than a 12th level fighter who comes along with
no Majesty and thinks he'd be a better ruler than our little prince. The
prince will earn 31RP/domain turn while the 12th level fighter would earn 12RP
in the same amount of time.
Note, however, that the 12th level fighter could get a majesty score of 4
IMNBRC (a new acronym!) on his first domain turn by spending 10 of the 12 RP he
collected in order to create and increase his own Majesty score. He would
still only be able to collect 16RP the next turn and would only have 2RP to
spend on his first turn, but he could start increasing his ability to rule
fairly quickly. It would require an awful lot of RPs to get up to the level of
the prince, but it could help.
Gary
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