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  1. #1
    MANTA
    Guest

    Dare I say, 0 level Characters?

    I once had an adventure where the PC´s got their ages reduced by 25 years.
    I had to adapt the ability scores. Gave them all thac0 20 and let the
    wizard memorize one 1st level spell per day (can´t remember how the cleric
    worked...)

    I ajusted the scores using this table
    Age STR DEX CON INT WIS CHR
    0-3 1 or 2 1/3 1/3 1/2 1 or 2 +4
    3-6 1/3 -2 1/2 -2 1/3 +3
    7-12 1/2 - -1 -1 1/2 +2
    13-15 -1 - - - -1 +1

    It worked fine for me.
    Does this help?

    MANTA
    ip209007@ip.pt
    ICQ: 17080887

    - ----------
    > From: Morg
    > To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    > Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Dare I say, 0 level Characters?
    > Date: sexta-feira, 27 de novembro de 1998 20:35
    >
    > I am starting up a new RL campaign (Hopefully it will work better the
    > second time around...) Anyway, the basic premise is that each PC will
    > start off in different areas of the world, and after completing a few
    > minor adventures on their own, will all meet and discover that their'
    > destines' (and plot lines) and run in the same direction! (muhahahaha!
    > Players never share their solo adventure secrets until it is too
    > late...muhahahahahaha!)
    >
    > OK, great. Now the problem. One of the PCs is only about 12 -14 years
    > old when the game starts. He is in the poorest of poor social classes,
    > has no family, no money, and has been living on the streets since he was
    > a small child. Naturally, he is a thief, but I am not sure that a 12
    > year old boy would qualify as having reached 1st level. (He doesn't
    > belong to any guilds either.)
    >
    > Now, I know that the old Greyhawk adventures hard cover had rules for 0
    > level PC (hated them.) I'm not sure about Players Option books (but
    > from what I have seen of those rank with the GH hardcover).
    > I had thought of stating him with 1d3 hps, and only 1/2 the starting
    > theif skill points. (He'll get the rest when he does reach 1st
    > level...) but this seems like a mechanical nightmare to me.
    >
    > Anyone got any advice?
    >
    > On a completely unrelated note, has anyone used Birthright rules in
    > their own campaign world conversions? (Greyhawk, home grown worlds,
    > etc.) I am thinking that the BR system would still work great in other
    > worlds (once all the province & holding levels have been figured out).
    > The regency point system could still work as well I believe, even
    > without the presence of bloodlines.
    >
    > Unless I am missing some very important information, the bloodline deal
    > is little more than background material. COuld not the RP system be
    > based on something else? Charisma & Wisdom perhaps? (Maybe a completely
    > new attribute; such as 'rulership'.)
    >
    > Ideas?
    >
    > Later...
    > Keith
    > --
    > "I am your humble knight, and I swear allegiance to the courage and
    > power in your veins.
    > So strong it is, it's source must be Uther Pendragon."
    > The Draftmine (Home of the Brass Boar & other Oddities.)
    > http://www.angelfire.com/ak/draftmine/
    > Brenna's Blood Secret PbeM (A Haven's of the Great Bay PBeM.)
    > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon/2239/index.htm
    >
    >
    >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
    line
    > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

  2. #2

    Dare I say, 0 level Characters?

    I am starting up a new RL campaign (Hopefully it will work better the
    second time around...) Anyway, the basic premise is that each PC will
    start off in different areas of the world, and after completing a few
    minor adventures on their own, will all meet and discover that their'
    destines' (and plot lines) and run in the same direction! (muhahahaha!
    Players never share their solo adventure secrets until it is too
    late...muhahahahahaha!)

    OK, great. Now the problem. One of the PCs is only about 12 -14 years
    old when the game starts. He is in the poorest of poor social classes,
    has no family, no money, and has been living on the streets since he was
    a small child. Naturally, he is a thief, but I am not sure that a 12
    year old boy would qualify as having reached 1st level. (He doesn't
    belong to any guilds either.)

    Now, I know that the old Greyhawk adventures hard cover had rules for 0
    level PC (hated them.) I'm not sure about Players Option books (but
    from what I have seen of those rank with the GH hardcover).
    I had thought of stating him with 1d3 hps, and only 1/2 the starting
    theif skill points. (He'll get the rest when he does reach 1st
    level...) but this seems like a mechanical nightmare to me.

    Anyone got any advice?

    On a completely unrelated note, has anyone used Birthright rules in
    their own campaign world conversions? (Greyhawk, home grown worlds,
    etc.) I am thinking that the BR system would still work great in other
    worlds (once all the province & holding levels have been figured out).
    The regency point system could still work as well I believe, even
    without the presence of bloodlines.

    Unless I am missing some very important information, the bloodline deal
    is little more than background material. COuld not the RP system be
    based on something else? Charisma & Wisdom perhaps? (Maybe a completely
    new attribute; such as 'rulership'.)

    Ideas?

    Later...
    Keith
    - --
    "I am your humble knight, and I swear allegiance to the courage and
    power in your veins.
    So strong it is, it's source must be Uther Pendragon."
    The Draftmine (Home of the Brass Boar & other Oddities.)
    http://www.angelfire.com/ak/draftmine/
    Brenna's Blood Secret PbeM (A Haven's of the Great Bay PBeM.)
    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon/2239/index.htm

  3. #3
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    Dare I say, 0 level Characters?

    My Stupendous Apprentice wrote:
    > I am thinking that the BR system would still work great in other
    > worlds (once all the province & holding levels have been figured out).
    > The regency point system could still work as well I believe, even
    > without the presence of bloodlines.

    It does - my friend's friend runs a Greyhawk campaign with the BR rules
    without any difficulties and NO BLOODLINES.

    > Unless I am missing some very important information, the bloodline deal is little more than background material. COuld not the RP system be based on something else? Charisma & Wisdom perhaps? (Maybe a completely new attribute; such as 'rulership'.)

    Yes! This is what I have been trying to say all along! In fact, why
    does it have to be limited by anything? Why not simply how much a
    person controls determines their RP score a turn? An emperor would have
    more influence than a lowly vassal knight who controls (perhaps) one law
    holding. Yet that emperor could (potentially, however unlikely) collect
    just as much RPs as the VK because they have the same bloodline. Whats
    worse? This same situation could befall the GORGON! GAH! All right
    thinking game designers should take note and never let this come to
    pass! :D

    Anyways, if there had to be a limiting factor, I would vote for the CHR
    stat - finally give it some real worth in the game! :P

    Ahem.

    (btw, I play BR normally, in case anyone thinks otherwise) :)

    (well, okay, I confess, I'm an insane player, but I still *run* a normal
    BR campaign!) :P

    Cheers,
    Darren

  4. #4
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Dare I say, 0 level Characters?

    Jim Cooper wrote:

    > My Stupendous Apprentice wrote:
    > > I am thinking that the BR system would still work great in other
    > > worlds (once all the province & holding levels have been figured out).
    > > The regency point system could still work as well I believe, even
    > > without the presence of bloodlines.
    >
    > It does - my friend's friend runs a Greyhawk campaign with the BR rules
    > without any difficulties and NO BLOODLINES.

    > > Unless I am missing some very important information, the bloodline deal is little more than background material. COuld not the RP system be based on something else? Charisma & Wisdom perhaps? (Maybe a completely new attribute; such as 'rulership'.)
    >
    > Yes! This is what I have been trying to say all along! In fact, why
    > does it have to be limited by anything? Why not simply how much a
    > person controls determines their RP score a turn? An emperor would have
    > more influence than a lowly vassal knight who controls (perhaps) one law
    > holding. Yet that emperor could (potentially, however unlikely) collect
    > just as much RPs as the VK because they have the same bloodline. Whats
    > worse? This same situation could befall the GORGON! GAH! All right
    > thinking game designers should take note and never let this come to
    > pass! :D

    > Anyways, if there had to be a limiting factor, I would vote for the CHR
    > stat - finally give it some real worth in the game! :P

    Personally, I think character level is a much better determinant of regency power than an ability score. Character level is in some way tied to a character's "power" which is much more closely akin to the magical abilities that bloodline represents.

    In my non-BR campaign I allow characters to collect regency based upon their character level. They can then spend RPs to "create" the non-BR equivalent of a bloodline, which I call Majesty. They do not gain blood abilities from this trait, but aside from
    that it is handled pretty much like BR blood strength. Certain magic items convey additional Majesty in the same way sielshegh gems do, which allows someone to increase their RP collection and possibly increase their majesty.

    NOTE: In my non-BR campaign there was an event like Deismaar which infused the land with magic. Part of my problem with the conversion of the BR domain rules into other, non-BR worlds is that it ignores that RPs are a form of magical energy generated by
    the land and the people who live on it. This magical energy can be generated because of the magical nature of the land itself which is directly tied to Deismaar and the magical infusion that the land itelf got when the gods sacrificed themselves. If you
    are going to use the BR domain rules in a non-BR campaign I really think you should come up with some sort of explanation for the generation of RPs. The domain rules are very closely tied to the backstory of the BR setting, so using one without the other
    leaves a massive gap in the rules.

    Gary

  5. #5
    Pieter Sleijpen
    Guest

    Dare I say, 0 level Characters?

    Gary V. Foss wrote:

    > Personally, I think character level is a much better determinant of
    > regency power than an ability score. Character level is in some way
    > tied to a character's "power" which is much more closely akin to the
    > magical abilities that bloodline represents.

    This means that every ruler should be a high lvl character in your
    campaign? That does not suite me, many rulers will never adventure or
    find the time to train extensively as a warrior. The demands of
    rulership or just plain right different from the demands of an
    adventurer. Except maybe for the cleric or wizard who can gain
    experience by ressearch or the making of magical items. In my eyes a low
    or even 0lvl can be just as effective ruler as some high leveled
    character.

  6. #6
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Dare I say, 0 level Characters?

    Pieter Sleijpen wrote:

    > Gary V. Foss wrote:
    >
    > > Personally, I think character level is a much better determinant of
    > > regency power than an ability score. Character level is in some way
    > > tied to a character's "power" which is much more closely akin to the
    > > magical abilities that bloodline represents.
    >
    > This means that every ruler should be a high lvl character in your
    > campaign? That does not suite me, many rulers will never adventure or
    > find the time to train extensively as a warrior. The demands of
    > rulership or just plain right different from the demands of an
    > adventurer. Except maybe for the cleric or wizard who can gain
    > experience by ressearch or the making of magical items. In my eyes a low
    > or even 0lvl can be just as effective ruler as some high leveled
    > character.

    Well, it means that all things being equal a higher level ruler will be better
    than a lower level ruler. The Majesty trait in my non-BR campaign is still
    worth quite a bit in determining the amount of RPs earned per domain turn. I
    handle Majesty pretty much like bloodline in BR, except that it is added to the
    character level to determine the amount of RPs generated by the regent and it
    does not give the regent blood abilities. An heir to the throne will get the
    average of his parent's Majesty scores, so the 1st level son of the Emperor may
    have a 30 Majesty score if daddy had a 40 Majesty and mommy had a 20. That
    makes him a more effective ruler than a 12th level fighter who comes along with
    no Majesty and thinks he'd be a better ruler than our little prince. The
    prince will earn 31RP/domain turn while the 12th level fighter would earn 12RP
    in the same amount of time.

    Note, however, that the 12th level fighter could get a majesty score of 4
    IMNBRC (a new acronym!) on his first domain turn by spending 10 of the 12 RP he
    collected in order to create and increase his own Majesty score. He would
    still only be able to collect 16RP the next turn and would only have 2RP to
    spend on his first turn, but he could start increasing his ability to rule
    fairly quickly. It would require an awful lot of RPs to get up to the level of
    the prince, but it could help.

    Gary

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