Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Victoria BC, Canada
    Posts
    368
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Here is the writeup for the proposed Courts section of Ch.5. I'd like commentary before I put this to a sanctioning vote.

    Courts
    Courts are centers of power; a setting where the regent can engage in the business of the realm. Like holdings, courts are rated by level. A court's level represents the number and quality of a regent's servants, courtiers, diplomats, agents, and spies. A court governs not just how well a regent lives, but also how well he maintains the central apparatus of government. A court is a domain asset with a level that measures its relative quality and its cost.
    It is suggested that a regent have a court according to Table 5-6: Suggested Court Levels. Examples of Realms and holdings that fit the various categories are as follows:A court smaller than suggested is generally hard pressed to effectively administrate the realm and may, at the DM’s option, face additional penalties to actions that would be influenced by the public face that the court provides, such as diplomacy. A court larger than suggested is more able to aggressively pursue the regent's interests. Source holdings do not require Administrate and are thus ignored for the purpose of determining expected court level.
    A regent may construct a palace near their seat of power to enhance his standing. A palace allows a regent to enhance their normal court expenditures by +1 per level of the palace, up to the level of the court. For example, a regent whose seat of power is a holding (4) and a palace (5) can have up to a court (10) by paying for a Court (5) and maintaining the palace (5).
    Valuable courts take time to build up. Skilled courtiers cannot be hired overnight. Through the use of the Decree domain action a regent may increase their court level by +1 per season. Only one such decree can be made per domain turn. Likewise, a regent can decrease the size of their court by any amount. The new court level is permanent until changed through a future decree.
    Code:
    TABLE 5-6: SUGGESTED COURT LEVELS
    Type..........Small........Large......Premiere
    Landed..........4............6.............8
    Guild...........2............4.............6
    Temple..........2............4.............6
    As the size of a regent's court grows, so does the prestige and reputation of their courtiers and lieutenants. Well-funded courts allow the domain to perform more actions than the regent would be able to perform alone. In addition, a well-known court provides benefits to the regent and the members of his court. Those who recognize a character as a courtier are likely to react to the courtier in a manner consistent with their attitude to the regent's domain. Refer to Domain attitudes, below, for details on the use of the court-based reputation modifier.

    Code:
    TABLE 5-5: COURT LEVELS
    Level....Type......C..Actions..C..Rep..Notes*
    0........None..........0.........+0..Note 1
    1........Minimal.......0.........+0..Note 2
    2........Minimal.......1.........+0..Note 2
    3........Average.......1.........+1..Note 3
    4........Average.......2.........+1..Note 3
    5........Good..........2.........+2..Note 4
    6........Excellent.....3.........+2..Note 4
    7........Excellent.....3.........+3..Note 5
    8........Opulent.......4.........+3..Note 6
    9........Opulent.......4.........+4..Note 6
    10+......W..Class......5.........+4..Note 7
    
    *Notes are included below for formatting reasons
    • Note 1: The regent, and perhaps allies or a few hirelings paid from the regent's personal finances, administrate the domain when and where they can. The regent or his lieutenant must personally oversee all domain actions.
    • Note 2: The regent has a primary base of operations equivalent to a common inn and no more than a few servants. The regent has a local reputation within the province, but his courtiers are not well known. Common-folk expect to deal with regent directly and may be put off by having to deal with courtiers claiming to speak in the retainers' name. The court is capable of undertaking standard domain actions without necessarily requiring the personal involvement of the regent or lieutenants.
    • Note 3: The regent's court is fully functional with a scattering of trusted retainers and a few specialized servants such as musicians, tutors, a huntsman, etc. The court is capable of hosting occasional affairs of state and small festivals. The regent's retainers and agents are well known and the common-folk of the regent's holdings begin to interact with the regent's courtiers rather than the regent himself for most day-to-day matters.
    • Note 4: The regent's court becomes an established network and begins its own bureaucracy. The court has good facilities, plentiful servants and retainers, and regular feasts or festivals. People consider the regent's court to be agents of an authority (legitimate or otherwise). The common-folk of the regent's holdings interact with the regent's courtiers for all but the most pressing of issues and the courtiers are well stationed to carry out the regent's orders unassisted
    • Note 5: The regent's court is large and capable. Courtiers exist for every major function in the realm, and many have entire staffs of lesser courtiers that report to them directly. The court is capable of hosting balls and major galas regularly.
    • Note 6: The regent's court is a major center of power. Guests are waited on hand and foot. The regent's court handles all but the most critical matters and common-folk are rarely allowed the opportunity (or have the need) to speak with the regent directly.
    • Note 7: The regent's court is a thing of wonder spoken of in far off lands. Every day brings new art, literature, sport, a festive event of some kind. The regent is expected to do almost nothing and is almost entirely inaccessible except to other powerful regents.
    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."

    - R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    california
    Posts
    317
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Now come on, what fool came up with that table for the courts
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Victoria BC, Canada
    Posts
    368
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Jee, I wonder who it was there Jonah....
    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."

    - R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long

  4. #4
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Ashland, NH
    Posts
    1,377
    Downloads
    6
    Uploads
    0
    Athos,
    For the most part the writeup looks pretty good, thoug h I have a few suggestions.

    A palace allows a regent to enhance their normal court expenditures by +1 per level of the palace, up to the level of the court.
    This was really confusing, though the folowing sentences did clear things up for me. Perhaps it would be better to rephrase things thus:

    "A palace may be used to increase the effective level of a court by +1 per palace level. This bonus may never exceed 2 x the base court's effective level."

    Or something like that. The main thing is that it doesn't allow the court to increase its base expenditures; this suggests the palace raises the potential maximum level of the court rather than actually working like an enhancement bonus to the base court level.

    On a different bit: why would Aerenwe, by all accounts a rather isolationist kind of realm, need or want larger than a level 4 court? Especially as the suggested court level. The other suggested levels seem pretty accurate though.

    All in all, looks pretty good, man. Good work.

    Osprey

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Victoria BC, Canada
    Posts
    368
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Originally posted by Osprey@Sep 13 2004, 08:42 PM
    Athos,
    For the most part the writeup looks pretty good, thoug h I have a few suggestions.

    A palace allows a regent to enhance their normal court expenditures by +1 per level of the palace, up to the level of the court.
    This was really confusing, though the folowing sentences did clear things up for me. Perhaps it would be better to rephrase things thus:

    "A palace may be used to increase the effective level of a court by +1 per palace level. This bonus may never exceed 2 x the base court's effective level."

    Or something like that. The main thing is that it doesn't allow the court to increase its base expenditures; this suggests the palace raises the potential maximum level of the court rather than actually working like an enhancement bonus to the base court level.
    Good suggestion, I will put it into the version for a sanction vote.
    On a different bit: why would Aerenwe, by all accounts a rather isolationist kind of realm, need or want larger than a level 4 court? Especially as the suggested court level. The other suggested levels seem pretty accurate though.
    I was mostly going on the size of Aerenwe, but I suppose its political stance makes it a bit of an oddball. What would you suggest then as a replacement? Tuornen?
    All in all, looks pretty good, man. Good work.
    Thx!
    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."

    - R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    california
    Posts
    317
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Could we change the names. So that the palace and the courtiers combined equal the court. Other names may be better. I think that would help clarify the paragraph.

    "The courtiers and the palace combined are the court level. The Palace level supporting the court can not be larger than the courtiers level, since too few courtiers will be unable to make use of all the facilities available to them."
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    california
    Posts
    317
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Originally posted by "Athos"

    A regent may construct a palace near their seat of power to enhance his standing. A palace allows a regent to enhance their normal court expenditures by +1 per level of the palace, up to the level of the court. For example, a regent whose seat of power is a holding (4) and a palace (5) can have up to a court (10) by paying for a Court (5) and maintaining the palace (5).
    Valuable courts take time to build up. Skilled courtiers cannot be hired overnight. Through the use of the Decree domain action a regent may increase their court level by +1 per season. Only one such decree can be made per domain turn. Likewise, a regent can decrease the size of their court by any amount. The new court level is permanent until changed through a future decree.

    This is how I would alter the above two paragraphs to account for a change in names. Now Palace+Courties=Court

    A court is made up of the combination the the Courtiers and palace.
    A regent may construct a palace near their seat of power to enhance his standing. A palace allows a regent to enhance their normal court by +1 per level of the palace, up to the level of the Courtiers. For example, a regent whose seat of power is a holding (4) and a palace (5) can have up to a court (10) by paying for the courtiers (5) and maintaining the palace (5).
    Valuable courtiers take time to hire. Through the use of the Decree domain action a regent may increase their courtier level by +1 per season. Only one such decree can be made per domain turn. Likewise, a regent can decrease the size of their courtiers by any amount. The new courtiers level is permanent until changed through a future decree.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Ashland, NH
    Posts
    1,377
    Downloads
    6
    Uploads
    0
    In the BRCS the maximum base court level was equal to the regent's highest level holding in his/her capital province. So in your example above, the regent could have only a Court(4)+Palace(4).

    I'd prefer to maintain this limit on court size, though clarifying to include province level as a limiter for landed regents - it's one of the things that encourages regents to build up their capital holdings and attempt to achieve monoply in at least that one key location.

    I'm not sure I like Courtiers replacing Court, as the total court is made up of more than just courtiers, a palace, and its staff. It includes a level of activity like balls, festivals, administrative functions, etc. I think reducing it to just Courtiers and Palace might be oversimplifying things, though I appreciate the intent of avoiding confusion by applying different terminology to each concept.

    I think it would work to label things as

    Base Court = basic court structure; 1 GB/level; The base court level may not exceed the regent's highest level holding (or province level for landed regents).
    Palace = grandiose addition to the base court; costs 6 GB/level to build, 1/2 GB per level to maintain; raises the effective Court level by 1 per level of palace, up to 2x the base court level.
    Court = base court level + palace level (if any)

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Victoria BC, Canada
    Posts
    368
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Here's one point where we disagree Osprey.

    You feel that the largest province level or holding level should act as a 'glass ceiling' on the base court level. I happen to feel that the Regent should be able to have whatever level they please.

    My reasoning is that if the Regent selects a Base Court that is too small, then they are unable to effectively covern their realm. If they choose too high, then they are wasting GB for actions that don't get used.

    The main thrust of this change came about while working on the Atlas, and noting that the BRCS makes it an iron-clad requirement for a realm to maintain a court of the largest province size. Such a requirement bankrupts a few realms, including Ilien, which was expected to maintain a Court (7).

    Let's put it in the players' hands -- and give them the rope they need to either tie into a pretty bow, or hang themselves with.
    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."

    - R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    california
    Posts
    317
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Would retinue work better for you.

    This is from Websters (1913)

    "The collective body of persons composing the retinue of a sovereign or person high in authority; all the surroundings of a sovereign in his regal state"

    We can of course include a description of what what a retinue consists of
    Servants, adminsistrative staff and performers. Then when adequate facilities are present (a palace), balls and parties will also be thrown.

    I would just like to entirely exclude court from one of the terms, granted COURTiers wasn't the best way to go.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.