Olesens wrote:

> > She's also ridiculously easy to Charm. Humans are incredibly vulnerable to the
> > spell that forms the centerpoint of elven magic, especially in comparison to
> > the elven 90% resistance to it. That spell alone is what makes it so easy for
> > elves to kiss the girls and make them cry.
> Elves prefer Enchantment/Charm spells. When you go traveling in your home country
> the people you meet most frequently are those of your species. Then why did elves
> waste thier time with spells they cannot use on themselves (ie Charm spells)? This
> can lead off in two directions: Elven Unity and Elven Charm. Going with the
> former, Elves are a very united species (compared to humans and goblins) and
> therefore focus thier spells on helping elves and hindering non-elves. Pretty
> simple. But, refering to multi-race elven worlds like FR, drow have the charm
> resistance too and therfore Enc/Charm spells would be useless in elven civil wars
> (inculdes drow vs. surface elves). Or we could take that and go a step further.
> Elves with superior charm abilities. Maybe elves can negate or lessen thier
> brethren's resistance to Charm when trying to charm em. Perhaps they can easily
> charm other races (sv. throw penalty). Just my ideas.

On a semi-related note: Just how obvious do you guys think spellcasting is? I mean
some spells that have only verbal and somatic components could potentially be cast
without the targets realizing it. The Hypnotism spell should definitely be this way.
Charm Person has such a quick casting time that it could easily be disguised or
hidden. Just how loud to the verbal components have to be? Spoken in a normal tone of
voice, I'd say. (Exception being, of course, the Shout spell....) The Charm Person
spell has a 120 yard range. You could easily cast the spell on someone at the other
end of a football field and they wouldn't even notice it. They'd just find you
amazingly charming when you walked, introduced yourself and asked them to hold off the
red dragon for "a round or two" while you made your escape.

I had an adventure a while back in which an NPC cast a couple of spells by weaving them
into a poem that he was delivering before an audience. A mage with Spellcraft ability
could detect this sort of thing, but a character unable to recognize spells for what
they are probably never would. Bards would be particularly good at this kind of
thing. That six second casting time would probably take less time to cast than reading
this sentence just took you....

The somatic components could be very easily seen as part of normal gesturing during
conversation. Lots of people speak with their hands. It's not unusual at all. I
haven't read anything that would make me suspect somatic components are obvious. Some
of the spell descriptions (Message, for instance) only require pointing at an
individual. That kind of thing is probably not going to attract any attention.

Even material components would not be that big a giveaway should a character be trying
to hide them. They are almost always small items, easily palmed and kept from view. A
character casting Phantasmal Force holding a bit of fleece (again with the punny spell
components) is hardly going to make all the fighters whip out their swords and start

Having to make a saving throw might tip someone off. It's possible that they sense
forces at work and have to throw them off by force of will. I don't see how that would
necessarily tip the PC off as to who was casting the spell, however. In the case of
the Phantasmal Force, however, the fighters could just see a bunch of warriors come
walking into the room with swords out ready to hack into everyone in the bar. They
have to choose to disbelieve, so it still seems unlikely that they would would realize
the source of the spell unless he was the only guy in the bar sitting there wearing a
pointy hat or something....

Are intelligence checks in order for this sort of thing? What do you guys think?