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Thread: Comments from a illiterate mute
10-19-1998, 03:47 AM #1Bernardo79@aol.coGuest
Comments from a illiterate mute
Greetings and Salutations
There is a problem with the GS debate, and resulting discussions. This brings
up a conversation I had with one of my younger players I game with no long ago
I will now recap it a bit for some of you as I believe it pertains to this
debate. Mostly it has been said here, but I tend to like running things into
the ground and like to hear myself talk, or see my words in print..as it were.
This is not reality, it is fantasy. Scoff at this statement if you will, but
aparently some of you do not fully understand it. You see in the real world
people are never one dimensional. Everything is grey, and multi-dimensional.
People see things differently. The AD&D world is a fantasy world. People are
good, evil, or neutral. Whole races are evil. There is one BIG reason for
this. They are antagonists. They are the bad guys, and the heroes are the
good guys. Why are there these black and white differences... because it is
not real, but something fantastical.
These things come clear when you read older fantasy and the older roleplaying
games. Older fantasy is a fantasy generated by less race aware cultures.
D&D was not made to Role play as it is defined today. People were just meant
to play a character as you would in a computer game, or as chess peices
represent you in a chess game. Both created these "evil" races to have
antagonists to the adventuring heroes. Something to kill to gain gold.
Also you must seperate murder from war and, please note that I am talking
about this in a fantasy setting, not a real world setting!!! War is
something different from murder. Soldiers, unless they are evil, don't kill
because they enjoy it, no, they do so because they are at war. Murder on the
other hand is done because the person doing it enjoys it and/or the person is
not in their right mind. This is something evil. Orcs and other monster races
that have evil alignments do so because their race kills to kill. Many in
fact are cannibals, rapists, and murders. They are the embodiment of what is
evil in men. You see these beings are one dimensional. They were created so
that the heros could have something to kill without regret. They are the
servents of evil.
The Gheallie Sidhe is evil. They commit murder. It is not a war, it is
terrorism. Terrorism is evil. Of course it isn't evil to them, but their
alignments remain evil. Alignment is PLAYER PoV not CHARACTER PoV. The
difference is major. Alignments are very important because they allow the
game to address morality it game terms, as well as provide a standard and
restriction on characters. Evil is still evil in a fantasy setting. If a
Paladin does something evil he is punished. Weither he believed he was doing
good or not Seperate yourself from the character. ALignment is a game term.
Characters don't know what alignment is. Sure the GS can think they are doing
good, but the PLAYER PoV is that it is evil. If a Paladin killed an Orc
caravan then he would that be evil? No, why because he is killing evil
things. This WOULD NOT be true if this was in real life. This is FANTASY.
Therefore we must evaluate it it within its context.
It has nothing to do with the real world. It is seperate, so please maintain
it that way. Yes the GS elves could all be nice elves to other elves, but
they retain their evil alignment, because they murder. They do not fight
another soldier in hand to hand, or vanquish the foul foe... they kill beings
because they are not elves. They don't wage war, they are terroists. This is
evil in this world. Such is the game. Accept it or change it in your world.
All rules in the game can be acknoledged, changed, or disregarded. But as it
stands in the book the alignment defintions hinge on evil beings are ok to
Ok with that said, I would like to say that there is a point to be said for
adding realism and motives to the b&w world of Fantasy. But usually that
removes the fun from playing and puts it into the creating. Its not fun to
roleplay your soldier having to have a morality discussio with the orc to find
out if he is evil of good. Its not fun to consider evil and good racial wise
when you are playing. These are things fun during off hours of the game. Now
while you are playing. Now whilw I am all for putting plot twists and having
NPCs that are the expection and not the rule. But these things are one time
things. It begins to grate on players if they can never charge into a
situation with swords swinging, but have to think things through everytime.
Hack and Slash is a good thing, its not a campaign, but it is definatly a good
senario now and then.
Also please, make sure before you go and change the Norms of a world, to tell
your player, as by changing the norms, the charcters would have differnet
attitudes toward somethings. This is something I noticed when I began playing
RPGs in chat rooms on the internet, as it was second nature for my friends and
I to discuss everything pertaining to the worlds we played in before the
games. But on the internet I find that the would be gms give little to none,
and usally the games turn sour in less then 5 weeks because the lines of
communication are down, no inter game smoke or snack finding breaks, no before
game chats, no between game night discussions. These things are important to
RPGs if the games are not playing by the rules verbatum.
- -Bernie "The long winded one" Cannariato
DM of When Night Falls Birthright PBeM game that is looking for more GMs
"So you say that gold ring is turning your skin green where you wear it, it
must be possessed. Why don't you pay my fee and I will make sure to cast a
spell and exporcise any that have gotten into you"- A great scam that almost
10-19-1998, 06:50 AM #2GalwylinGuest
Comments from a illiterate mute
At 11:47 PM 10/18/98 EDT, Bernardo79@aol.com wrote:
>The Gheallie Sidhe is evil. They commit murder. It is not a war, it is
>terrorism. Terrorism is evil. Of course it isn't evil to them, but their
>alignments remain evil. Alignment is PLAYER PoV not CHARACTER PoV. The
>difference is major. Alignments are very important because they allow the
>game to address morality it game terms, as well as provide a standard and
>restriction on characters. Evil is still evil in a fantasy setting. If a
>Paladin does something evil he is punished. Weither he believed he was doing
>good or not Seperate yourself from the character. ALignment is a game term.
>Characters don't know what alignment is. Sure the GS can think they are
>good, but the PLAYER PoV is that it is evil. If a Paladin killed an Orc
>caravan then he would that be evil? No, why because he is killing evil
>things. This WOULD NOT be true if this was in real life. This is FANTASY.
>Therefore we must evaluate it it within its context.
I'm almost finished with this thread myself but to add one more thing.
Just as the paladin isn't doing evil for killing orcs, some points have
been that the gheallie Sidhe isn't evil for the same reason. Both are
wiping out sources of evil. Of course that doesn't hold together if humans
are inherently good. Orcs may be evil by game design but humans and elves
aren't. That's the crux of the problem, the gheallie Sidhe is open to
players to participate in.
This has been a GalwylinÂ® Production
10-19-1998, 04:42 PM #3Mooncastle@aol.coGuest
Comments from a illiterate mute
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