(d20 Atlas) Deciding on Regent's Vitals

[Justinius_ExMortis]

Can we make the Gorgon more Fighter than Wizard? More like Figter 34/Wizard 7/Scion 2? From what I understand (and my knowledge is of limited sources so please be kind) The Gorgon has never really applied Domain level magics when invading and has rarely used magic of any kind. Other than gear and equipment. What I understand of him he's a brawler and warrior primarily. Always looking to go toe to toe with an opponent and wanting to feel the blood on his face and watch the flash of the swords blade. Historically everyone speaks of his martial ability and competence on the field. Nobody mentions fire flying from his fingers and rays of energy laying waste to his opponents. Since he rampages every century or so It's not likely he developed 17 levels of Wizards in a few decades time. that's protracted training and experience. Difficult for an epic character. Now a lower level in Wizard is easily explained versus time and oppurtunity and also makes sense as a recent development for him as he slowly realizes that rampaging hasn't really gotten him anywhere towards any difinable goal other than one. The increase to his bloodline. Why would someone basically conquer several realms and take the bloodlines of there leaders only to go back home and leave it all behind? Is he insane? Or is he simply building his bloodline, attempting to achieve true godhood? Thus he could be feeling that as he nears his goal he needs to have a better understanding of the magic of the land and how to use it towards his own ends as well as be prepared for his godly powers if and when they arrive. Now, whether a true bloodline can actually get so high that he becomes a god is up to an individual GM but makes for an interesting reason to the change in levels and I think a better representation of the Gorgons thought process in persuing his level advancement. Obviously this is just a thought but thanks for giving me an oppurtunity to put it out there.

Justinius ExMortis

"plans fail, people die, and civilizations fall, the only constant is the entropy behind it all. Have a pleasant evening."

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Justinius_ExMortis@Dec 8 2004, 04:16 PM
Can we make the Gorgon more Fighter than Wizard? More like Figter 34/Wizard 7/Scion 2? From what I understand (and my knowledge is of limited sources so please be kind)

I understand your logic here. I believe (and support) trying to capture as close as possible what the 2nd ed material had listed for major NPCs. What Ian listed is pretty darn close to what was in the original rules.

Scion levels of course have been added due to the "new" mechanics.

[Hrandal]

Is Daeric Mhoried really high enough level? I know its terribly inflationary to just suggest upping someone's levels, but on reading Ruins, I came away thinking that he was pretty much the best human strategist alive from the description.

Someone who has defeated the armies of the Gorgon - even if it was probably just one of his generals - should be bit higher level IMO.

Also, it seems like Ghoere has him terribly outgunned in terms of levels - again not really the impression I got from the background.

I would suggest raising the Mhor a couple of levels, just to keep him in the running with the other big players in Anuire.

Also, I've noticed that a lot of the "notable" wizards are all clustered at the same level (Torele Anviras 10, Caine 10, 2nd Swamp Mage 10, Sword Mage 10, Swamp Mage 11). This seems a little disproportionate to me, so I'd suggest that their levels be varied a little. Perhaps some prestige class for the Sword Mage?

Also, the background seems to hit an uncharecteristically stumbling block with its landed female rulers - they often seem a little repetitive compared to male regents.

For instance;
Marlae Roesone/Fhiele Dhoesone. Same alignment, same title, near-identical sounding countries, similar levels.

Laela Flaertes/Eriene Mierelen - Same race (half elven), same title

I realise they do have great differences, but it seems to me like less care and attention was put into the female regents. I know it would mess with the setting a little, but I'd strongly suggest at least changing the titles of some of these women.l

[Bokey]

I might be addressing something that goes beyond the scope of this particular thread, but I feel I should bring it up just to ease my mind. :unsure:

I want to say that the playtest altered the bloodscores in some manner; I can't remember if it doubled them or halved them, and I don't have a copy readily available here at the moment to reference.

I assume the Atlas will reflect these changes made in the playtest, but it doesn't appear to me that the bloodscore #'s presented here do. Is that an error or emission, or am I just flat out wrong (which is quite possible)?

Thanks

[Angelbialaska]

The sanctioned change of chapter 2 details bloodlines. You have twice your bloodline score in bloodline strength.

Daeric Mhoried is level 7. I'm not sure exactly why he would be a higher level. He's not the one doing the fighting himself, although he can defend himself.

There are many level 10-11 wizards. I believe keeping it at that is a good thing. Otherwise one of them can start dominating over the others.

I wouldn't change any of the published regents particularly, except perhaps change their classes to fit. I can't see what's the problem with having some regents that are a bit similar in names. Just look at the nobility of Europe. Most of those also use some of the same names and with the intermarriage and such, the slight changes in names can simply be cultural?

The Gorgon may not use realm magic, but he's still holding some massive sources. And in his description of fighting, it's described how he uses Anti-Magic field, so that he may wander through battlefields slaugthering around him, without having to worry about pesky wizards.

[The Jew]

and

[The Jew]

But their is a school of thought that characters should be awarded with xp for being rulers and generals. It is a challenge they are overcoming, and if their armies lose then they will likely die.

At least in the Domain level of play a few levels will not give a major advantage. If 1 was dropped to 9th level and one raise to 12th, it would not create an obvious power imbalance.

[Hrandal]

I'm not complaining that they are similar per se - I'm saying that its a shame that the tiny number of female characters compared to male characters haven't had MORE time rather than less spent on them.

Another example;

There are only two proper theocracies in Anuire - both held by women.

It just seems like when they came to female characters they just decided to cut and paste, and then add details to make them different later.

As for the Mhor's levels, I disagree, I would expect someone who has fought off the Gorgon's armies (presumably fighting from the front, given that self-reliance is such a theme of Mhoried) to be tougher than level 7. Also, he is quite old, so I would expect that he has more levels through life experience.

The level 10-11 wizards thing just feels wrong because it seemed like some sort of artificial barrier was saying "this powerful, but no more". Its made a bit of an unrealistic bottleneck, to my mind. The fact is that there are people out there with more wizard levels, and lots with less as well - but the numbers don't seem to follow any logical grouping.

I'll freely admit these are factors that bug me just because they jar the game reality a bit for me, not because they are mechanically unworkable (although I do think currently Gavin Tael would eat Daeric Mhoried alive in the domain level stuff.)

[The Jew]

Originally posted by Bokey@Dec 9 2004, 11:38 AM
I might be addressing something that goes beyond the scope of this particular thread, but I feel I should bring it up just to ease my mind. :unsure:

I want to say that the playtest altered the bloodscores in some manner; I can't remember if it doubled them or halved them, and I don't have a copy readily available here at the moment to reference.

I assume the Atlas will reflect these changes made in the playtest, but it doesn't appear to me that the bloodscore #'s presented here do. Is that an error or emission, or am I just flat out wrong (which is quite possible)?

Thanks

You are right the playtest did halve the bloodscores. But the outcry from the rigid old players unable to handle any sort of modernisation :P has reinstated the original rules.

[Osprey]

I'm not complaining that they are similar per se - I'm saying that its a shame that the tiny number of female characters compared to male characters haven't had MORE time rather than less spent on them.

Another example;

There are only two proper theocracies in Anuire - both held by women.

It just seems like when they came to female characters they just decided to cut and paste, and then add details to make them different later.

Agreed. This is a recurring problem in many (most?) fantasy settings, be they books, RPG's, or whatever. I think females get shafted for 2 reasons in BR:
1. Male authors of all genres have always had difficulties in portraying believable three-dimensional female characters. I confess to having a similar problem in my own storytelling and DMing, though running my BR campaign for the last 2 years has pushed me mightily to develop an extensive caste of strong female regents and NPC's to complement my all-male PC group. In fact, the figurehead lead character is now a female: Elana Alwer, now Baroness of Roesone (long story) and a powerful fighter/noble warrior and regent.

2. There's a genuine difficulty in trying to use historical medieval society as a default basis for the setting while at the same time catering to a politically-correct game setting in which women are considered equals in every way that matters. While this is conveniently democratic (and a fantastic slice of idealism inserted into most D&D settings) and nice for encouraging female players (which I do like to have, they're just damned hard to find)...it just doesn't jive with history. Again and again in my own gaming in medieval worlds, I keep running into places where the fantasy setting has inherent conflicts between fantasy and history. This is definitely true for Birthright - it's more historically grounded in terms of cultures than any other D&D settings I know of.

On the other hand, I'm having a lot of fun with the idea that patriarchy is still the traditionalist, conservative tendencies in most of Cerilia (esp. more physical cultures like the Vos and Rjurik), but that women have been gradually challenging these assumptions. Which makes the roles and actions of female regents even more exciting in a running BR campaign, as they are the most visible role models for women throughout the setting.

Another character I've taken and developed heavily is Lasisca Diem (Hierl's daughter and heiress). As a Rogue/Wizard, and later an arcane trickster, she went from riches to rags to riches again through some sharp diplomacy and social manipulation (Diemed was conquered by their rivals to the east; Hierl was killed, Lasisca imprisoned; she bargained her way out of lifelong captivity and into a position as new guilder of Diemed; later she married one a PC guilder, and now has regained 2 provinces of Diemed as well, Aerele and Bliene. She's also one of the strongest guilders in Anuire by 560 onwards).

Sorry for the rambling asides, but it does let me share some ideas and storylines for female characters that might help lend variety to the original list of Cerilian regents - for the enterprising DM's.

Osprey