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01-02-2000, 03:15 AM #1
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BR Cancellation
Ready for a shock ? According to a TSR staffer Sean
Reynolds in the BR folder on the TSR website it seems
that as a product the Birthright Boxed Set Lost Money.
Not a lot but since that item should be the best selling
one in the line if it lost money then you can bet that
the expansions were not much better if at all.
In a later post he also stated that the Players Secrets
were found to be competing with each other.Too many were
being sold at one time.
L8R
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10-07-1998, 05:21 PM #2BenandAmyGuest
BR Cancellation
- -----Original Message-----
From: J. D. Lail
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 12:10 PM
Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - BR Cancellation
>Ready for a shock ? According to a TSR staffer Sean
>Reynolds in the BR folder on the TSR website it seems
>that as a product the Birthright Boxed Set Lost Money.
>Not a lot but since that item should be the best selling
>one in the line if it lost money then you can bet that
>the expansions were not much better if at all.
>
>In a later post he also stated that the Players Secrets
>were found to be competing with each other.Too many were
>being sold at one time.
>
>L8R
This, Is probably true, but in my experience, they didn't sell because
they weren't on the shelves---not because people didn't want them. I bought
everything I could find, and so did a few other people I know. It was
pathetic---we would scout the shops every other day waiting for this stuff
to come in so we could get them before anyone else could. It just wasn't
available. IS ANYONE LISTENING AT TSR??????
Maybe I'm the exception, I don't know.
-
10-07-1998, 05:54 PM #3Gary V. FossGuest
BR Cancellation
J. D. Lail wrote:
> Ready for a shock ? According to a TSR staffer Sean
> Reynolds in the BR folder on the TSR website it seems
> that as a product the Birthright Boxed Set Lost Money.
> Not a lot but since that item should be the best selling
> one in the line if it lost money then you can bet that
> the expansions were not much better if at all.
>
> In a later post he also stated that the Players Secrets
> were found to be competing with each other.Too many were
> being sold at one time.
Since this sparked my interest enough to look up the actual posts that J.D.
mentions I thought other folks might find them interesting too, so here they
are:
>Birthright was a very expensive product line to produce. It was barely
>making any money - barely enough to support itself; even the box set was
>unprofitable due to some bad decisions made in marketing it. TSR is
>analyzing ways that BR could be brought back in a profitable manner. There
>are many people here that love the setting and would like to see it in
>print again.
Now this message says quite a bit to me. First, it says they realize that the
problem with the BR sales were some bad decisions in marketing the setting. I
actually see this as good news. I mean, they aren't thinking that the setting
is crap, so they just want to drop it. A rerelease of the setting might be
doubtful, but not impossible. As several people have pointed out, the
marketing of the BR setting was really bad. It made BR look like a
strategy/board game with all the numbers on the province maps and the
description of the setting as a place where rulers struggled against one
another.
The other message:
>Actually, we heard a lot of good things from fans about the domain
>sourcebooks, but the problem was that TSR was releasing 4 of them at a
>time - they were competing with each other, and so sales weren't that
>good.
>And the first goal is to make the campaign setting (the stand-alone main
>product) profitable. If that isn't profitable, everything else isn't going
>to help much.
Again, I see this as active interest on the part of TSR/WotWC (or I guess it's
WotWC/TSR, isn't it?) about the setting. Oh, I know this could be unreasonable
optimism on my part, but I think there are several things they could do to make
the setting more profitable.
A. Market it as a part of the core rules with the domain turns part of the
basic AD&D 3rd edition rules that are supposedly in development.
B. Lower the production values a bit. Oh, I know it's nice to have full color
backgrounds on all the pages of the Campaign expansions, but who really needs
that? I certainly don't. I'm perfectly happy with black text on white paper
with a few nice illustrations from time to time. Besides, you get more info
that way.
C. Release things on the web. This is an area that I think these guys really
should look into. With the rerelease of the core rules on CD-ROM, I really
think the company formerly known as TSR should start thinking about releasing
stuff over the web using charge cards and RTF formats. Gobs of people have
credit cards and computers or can pilfer them from people who do. Especially
we demented gamer types. Why not generate some revenue from that website,
man? Amazon.com is HUGE, guys! Get a clue! One up them by allowing your
customers to download the product directly onto their PCs and charge them for
it.
Gary
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10-07-1998, 06:14 PM #4TriztGuest
BR Cancellation
BenandAmy (xanadu@pdq.net) wrote:
- -> This, Is probably true, but in my experience, they didn't sell because
- -> they weren't on the shelves---not because people didn't want them.
I have to agree with Benand, atleast I didn't see more than 2 Birthright
settings Boxes over here in Gothenburg. One of the stores stopped to take in
BR stuff as they thought quite early that the BR wouldn't have a future.
//Trizt of Ward^RITE
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10-07-1998, 06:31 PM #5
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BR Cancellation
> This, Is probably true, but in my experience, they didn't sell because
>they weren't on the shelves---not because people didn't want them. I bought
>everything I could find, and so did a few other people I know. It was
>pathetic---we would scout the shops every other day waiting for this stuff
>to come in so we could get them before anyone else could. It just wasn't
>available. IS ANYONE LISTENING AT TSR??????
>Maybe I'm the exception, I don't know.
Oh...I wouldn't describe you as an exception...I have that problem with
most gaming products around...that's why at least once a quarter...I head to
LA to do some shopping...and even there I usually have to hit several stores
to find what I'm looking for...and it isn't because of us lacking stores
here in Vegas....there are just too many products that don't reach the
shelves...
I don't believe, however that this is entirely TSRs fault...but rather
problems with various shops...because they don't get things...or get too few
of them because a fair number of them have to pre purchase however much they
order...and they don't want to get stuck with unsold merchandise. There are
a few however that are too stupid to be in business...one of the stores in
town here that won't order things for a customer even if he asks...too much
bother I guess...
CIAO
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10-07-1998, 06:47 PM #6
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BR Cancellation
>C. Release things on the web. This is an area that I think these guys
really
>should look into. With the rerelease of the core rules on CD-ROM, I really
>think the company formerly known as TSR should start thinking about
releasing
>stuff over the web using charge cards and RTF formats. Gobs of people have
>credit cards and computers or can pilfer them from people who do.
Especially
>we demented gamer types. Why not generate some revenue from that website,
>man? Amazon.com is HUGE, guys! Get a clue! One up them by allowing your
>customers to download the product directly onto their PCs and charge them
for
>it.
Interesting that you should mention this...I was recently talking with
someone at TSR concerning something similar to this...I suggested to them
that they release things in a fashion similar to what Hero Games has started
doing...and that is as a .PDF file. Which is somewhat more likely than as
an RTF format...because PDF is not easy or convenient to change...which an
RTF is...and he told me they'd look into it...don't know if that makes it
likely at all...but the nice thing with doing it as PDF files...you can
format the file exactly as you want it...including color
backgrounds...pictures...whatever..but the problem with doing it that
way...while significantly reducing their costs to market...it also will
reduce the number of units they will sell...because when someone buys a
copy...all they have to do...is print a copy for themselves...and another
for any of their friends who wants one...which of course may or may not be
legal...but I wouldn't say that it is very ethical...but I guarantee that it
will happen...on the other hand that might get the game to spread enough
that more people would play and buy the other products for the game...I'd
guess that was the purpose FASA had when they released the main book for
Earthdawn as a file and gave it away free...
CIAO
-
10-07-1997, 07:54 PM #7GalwylinGuest
BR Cancellation
At 10:15 PM 1/1/00 -0500, J. D. Lail wrote:
>Ready for a shock ? According to a TSR staffer Sean
>Reynolds in the BR folder on the TSR website it seems
>that as a product the Birthright Boxed Set Lost Money.
>Not a lot but since that item should be the best selling
>one in the line if it lost money then you can bet that
>the expansions were not much better if at all.
I guess its not surprising cause it seems every line was losing money
except the Realms. But why did they reprint the box set when the first
went OOP? At the first of the year was when I got into Birthright and the
set was out of print. I ended up finding a used copy from one of the
online stores that deal in OOP but news was that TSR had gone back to the
printer with it. After not being able to find or order a brand new copy
when I got mine, it was available everywhere and then they cancelled it.
They do things strange if you ask me. I would have rather they held off
reprinting the box (which is supposed to be expensive itself) and keep
plans to do the hardcover.
This has been a Galwylin® Production
galwylin@airnet.net
http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/
-
10-07-1997, 08:06 PM #8GalwylinGuest
BR Cancellation
At 10:54 AM 10/7/98 -0700, Gary V. Foss wrote:
>
>A. Market it as a part of the core rules with the domain turns part of the
>basic AD&D 3rd edition rules that are supposedly in development.
I would be willing to see the domain turns become part of the core (2nd or
3rd Edition) but I'd like Birthright itself to remain a distinct setting
that uses those. That way, everyone can be a regent no matter the setting
and Birthright retains its uniqueness.
>B. Lower the production values a bit. Oh, I know it's nice to have full
color
>backgrounds on all the pages of the Campaign expansions, but who really needs
>that? I certainly don't. I'm perfectly happy with black text on white paper
>with a few nice illustrations from time to time. Besides, you get more info
>that way.
I love that color backgrounds but I'm with you. Black on white works just
as well.
>C. Release things on the web. This is an area that I think these guys really
>should look into. With the rerelease of the core rules on CD-ROM, I really
>think the company formerly known as TSR should start thinking about releasing
>stuff over the web using charge cards and RTF formats. Gobs of people have
>credit cards and computers or can pilfer them from people who do. Especially
>we demented gamer types. Why not generate some revenue from that website,
>man? Amazon.com is HUGE, guys! Get a clue! One up them by allowing your
>customers to download the product directly onto their PCs and charge them for
>it.
Afraid I'm not willing to pay for something like this that isn't a physical
object I can take away from the computer and use. But they could do like
Amazon.com and sell books directly to customers without the middle men.
I'd use that service but not one where I just recieve a file. There would
be too much pirating anyway. Imagine if they had charged for the Muden
guide, probably more would have a copy than had paid for it.
This has been a Galwylin® Production
galwylin@airnet.net
http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/
-
10-07-1998, 08:10 PM #9Jim CooperGuest
BR Cancellation
BenandAmy wrote:
>It was pathetic---we would scout the shops every other day waiting for this stuff to come in so we could get them before anyone else could. It just wasn't available. IS ANYONE LISTENING AT TSR??????
> Maybe I'm the exception, I don't know.
Nope. Exactly the same in my town. Fortunately, I scoured
several cities at once. :)
Cheers,
Darren
-
10-07-1998, 08:28 PM #10Gary V. FossGuest
BR Cancellation
Spyderz wrote:
> Interesting that you should mention this...I was recently talking with
> someone at TSR concerning something similar to this...I suggested to them
> that they release things in a fashion similar to what Hero Games has started
> doing...and that is as a .PDF file. Which is somewhat more likely than as
> an RTF format...because PDF is not easy or convenient to change...which an
> RTF is...and he told me they'd look into it...don't know if that makes it
> likely at all...but the nice thing with doing it as PDF files...you can
> format the file exactly as you want it...including color
> backgrounds...pictures...whatever..but the problem with doing it that
> way...while significantly reducing their costs to market...it also will
> reduce the number of units they will sell...because when someone buys a
> copy...all they have to do...is print a copy for themselves...and another
> for any of their friends who wants one...which of course may or may not be
> legal...but I wouldn't say that it is very ethical...but I guarantee that it
> will happen...on the other hand that might get the game to spread enough
> that more people would play and buy the other products for the game...I'd
> guess that was the purpose FASA had when they released the main book for
> Earthdawn as a file and gave it away free...
> CIAO
Actually, what I think they should do is keep things like the BR boxed set and
Campaign expansions hard and release things like the sourcebooks and adventure
modules soft. That way, they could force people to buy the actual setting and
not have to worry about people giving copies of it to their buddies any more
than they already have to worry about people with access to a color copier. The
sourcebooks will INEVITABLY sell less. I mean, in my little group we own
collectively about fifteen sourcebooks, but none of us buy one that another
person already has. It's just too expensive to do that. Several individuals
own copies of the boxed set, though, as well as the campaign expansion stuff.
Another issue: Why even box the stuff? I throw those boxes out right after I
open the damn things. I don't need another flipping box, man. Just shrink wrap
the stuff together and ship it out like that with maybe a cardstock cover sheet
on top. Save the $1.80 in material costs and the extra fifty cents in shipping
costs (not to mention the lost space on bookstore shelves that could be used to
sell additional products) and lower the freaking price a buck or two.
Gary
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