Fighter Regents

[David Sean Brown]

> Perhaps we should look at it this way - which provincial ruler likes
> having another regent own all the law in their own provinces?
> Especially when the foreign regent doesn't want anyone else to have a
> share of the pie? Same principle with class specific holdings, I would
> think.
True but don't forget that the province ruler (I am assuming it is the
fighter at this point) can supress all trade routes as a free action and
can use his province/guild level as "free RPs" to bid against any action
the guilder would do in his land...essentiall strongarming the guilder
into letting have at least some of the trade routes...kinda leaves the
guilder with the choice of a) letting it go and doing it the way the
province ruler wants, b) withdrawing from the provinces in question and
starting somewhere else, or c) engage in a long and costly war...

Sean

[Jim Cooper]

David Sean Brown wrote:
> True but don't forget that the province ruler (I am assuming it is the
> fighter at this point) can supress all trade routes as a free action and can use his province/guild level as "free RPs" to bid against any action the guilder would do in his land>...essentiall strongarming the guilder into letting have at least some of the trade routes...kinda leaves the guilder with the choice of a) letting it go and doing it the way the province ruler wants,

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Simon Graindorge wrote:

> What I was really getting at is that the fighter seems to have nothing that
> says "I am a fighter, and taking me on in this area is going to go badly for
> you". For example, a wizard has magic, a priest has higher powers, thieves
> have a network of informants and other such things, rangers have woodland
> friends, paladins have supreme military powers as well as a god - fighters
> don't have anything like this, yet they still have one of the highest
> experience point tables of all the classes.
>
> The point of my post was not really that province/domain rulers (who are
> mostly fighters, I'll admit) are relatively weak, but that fighter rulers
> seem to have very few benefits.
>
> I was wondering if perhaps they should have some benefits, in battle - ie.
> if you are going to attack a neighbouring warlord's (fighter regent)
> provinces, you better think twice about it.

1.) In Anuire, under Haelyn, fighters have the highest claim to authority.
This should let them get away with things against the other classes that
they might not get away with in other cultures (seizing caravans,
imprisoning guilders as "traitors of the realm," etc.)

2.) In my opinion, the rule from the "book of priestcraft" should be
extended to guilds: that of setting up "state guilds." In effect these are
sort of "vassalage-lite" options, in which the two PC's work out an
arraingement of mutual satisfaction between them: the guilder get the
benefit of being the state guild: usually that no other guild is allowed
to exist, or to expand, or to have trade routes in the land, and the
province ruler gets regular amounts of GB's and RP's from the guilder
(esp. GB). I would suggest that the fighter regent, and fighter regent
only gets to collect RP from this sort of arraingement (prob. 1 RP per GB
collected from the "state guild." This is in keeping with #1 above, and
might be different for different cultures.

3.) All non-fighter regents are limited to 5 army units than can be
controlled at one time. If they wish to field more than that many units at
any one time, they must hire fighter lieutennants as generals, each of
which allows them to control 5 more units. As most non-fighter realms are
fairly small (Ilien, Endier, Medoere) this shouldn't be too bad, but both
Taeghas and Talinie must have at least a couple of figher lieutennants.
Fighters are not limited in the number of units they can control w/o
dedicated lieutennants. If this seems too harsh, limit it to only units
which are outside of the regent's own domain borders (i.e. medoere can
have 7 units, as long as they stay within the borders of Medoere. only 5
of them can attack Diemed at one time unless Surris Enlien hires a fighter
lieutennant using the Lieutennant action).

4.) Increase the cost of fortified holdings for non-fighters. For example,
when figuring domain maintenance costs, fortified guilds count BOTH as
guilds and as castles. Thus a level 3 fortified guild counts as six
"units" of holding when figuring domain maintenance costs.

5.) When fighting a battle, the army led by a fighter always gets to
choose the field (and gets the best position). If the non-fighter has a
fighter general lieutennant, use contested Strategy proficiency checks,
but give the lieutennant a penalty for not being able to control the
army as efficiently.

Just some ideas.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Jim Cooper]

Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:
> 1.) In Anuire, under Haelyn, fighters have the highest claim to authority. This should let them get away with things against the other classes that they might not get away with in other cultures (seizing caravans, imprisoning guilders as "traitors of the realm," etc.)

[David Sean Brown]

> >> or c) engage in a long and costly war...
> I guarantee that's what 99% of my players would chose. It would take
> somebody like the Gorgon to chose step (a) or (b) above.
>
> Anyone have any fresh new arguments I could use with my PCs to help me
> convince them that the NPC bad guys need to win sometime so they can
> have somebody to fight against in the future?
>
Simple enough..have the attempt option (c) above, and just get crushed by
the guy and his allies. After that, they'll be too busy attempting to get
their things back together to try to push him around...at the same time,
you can have a competator or two try to muscle in on their turf..if they
want to try to use war as a solution to everything NPCs do that bothers
them, have them lose..teaches ya a little humility..

Sean

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Jim Cooper wrote:

> Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:
> > 1.) In Anuire, under Haelyn, fighters have the highest claim to authority. This should let them get away with things against the other classes that they might not get away with in other cultures (seizing caravans, imprisoning guilders as "traitors of the realm," etc.)
> Wouldn't this be the other way around? Wouldn't fighters be under MORE
> scrutiny by temples of Haelyn? IMHO, Haelyn says its doesn't matter who
> rules, its HOW you rule ...

Well, not in MY conception. Haelyn is highly into the whole heirarchy
thing. The nobility are meant to rule (and note that many blooded people
are not actually "nobility," instead they were commoners before Deismaar
and mostly became guilders or priests or wizards after deismaar, or slowly
worked their way into the traditional hereditary nobility). For me,
Haelyn's rule says that everything and everyone has their place, and
happiness comes in finding your place and doing the best job you can,
being good and just and true to who you really are. Rulers are meant to
rule, and servants are meant to serve, and a lad meant to rule but left
among servants is as bad a sin as a greedy man taking the place of a ruler
because of his own selfish desires. If you were meant to serve the king,
then serve the king and you will be happy. If you were meant to serve the
king's servant, then wanting to serve the king will only make you unhappy,
and getting to serve the king just because you want to can only bring
tragedy.

But, of course, this could also be reading my own personal philosophy
into it, and others might see it more you way.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[JD Lail]

>Simon says:

>* Firstly, what is your take on the above? do you agree with me that
>fighters seem at a disadvantage, or not?

Yes I agree the fighter is at a disadvantage.

>* and secondly, has anyone got any ideas of how to address this [perceived?]
>imbalance?

Hmmm...... what about giving law holders regency from law claims ?
That sure would make it more worth my while as a law holder to keep
my law rating higher than the guilds & temples. But I will agree that
more is needed.

BTW Do all of you deduct the law claims from the income of the Guild
and/or Temple being claimed against ? Also does this come before RP's
are taken ?

L8R