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  1. #11
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Re:[Birthright] - Stupid Elf Qu

    Pieter A de Jong wrote:

    > Gary V. Foss wrote:
    > >
    > > the Resurrection spell works on any living creature. If memory serves, this is
    > > because of a Tolkienesque description of elves as creatures that have spirits,
    > > while humans, dwarves, gnomes, etc. have souls. A Raise Dead spell will
    > > supposedly only work on beings with a soul, so it won't work on any creature other
    > > than humans and most demi-humans.
    > >
    > > While this is not a terribly huge gaming effect, it does point out the difference
    > > between a magically created "living" creature like a homunculus and humans who
    > > supposedly have souls in game terms. This could also influence other areas of the
    > > game if one were to continue the same logic. Could one cast a Speak with Dead
    > > spell to talk to a creature that did not have a soul or spirit? Could one be
    > > Reincarnated?
    > >
    > > If you expand this thinking in BR terms, it might be a good explanation for why
    > > there are no elven priests. If elves have spirits rather than souls you could
    > > rule that a soul is required to cast priestly spells and that's why elves are
    > > excluded. Though it might still cause a problem in the case of the priestly
    > > spells that elven rangers are allowed... but I kind of like the explanation, so I
    > > might just go with it in my campaign....
    > >
    > > Lastly, the difference between a spirit and a soul could also be the explanation
    > > of elven immortality. A creature with a spirit is immortal, while one with a soul
    > > is not, but one with a soul has certain benefits in the afterlife to look forward
    > > to that a spirit does not.
    > >
    > All right, this is another approach. However, I believe it is possible
    > to summon spirits through conjuration magic. Is it possible to conjure
    > forth a cerilian elf? Also, spirits that die usually reform given
    > time. Eg. all devils, demons, the like reform on their home plane when
    > they die (it does take many years). Does this happen to elves, and is
    > this the limiting factor on their population (there are so many elf
    > spirits to go around and no more)

    Well, it's possible to conjure spirits from other planes. I don't think conjure in the
    AD&D sense means "create from out of nowhere." Rather, it means "summon from another
    plane of existence" which is rather different.

    I suppose it might be possible for a character to create some sort of magical body and
    summon a spirit from another plane to animate it. I think that's what creating golems
    are such things is, isn't it? I don't think that is what elves "spirits" are, however.
    There might be some sort of difference between spirits that are "born" on the prime
    material plane and those that exist on the other planes. I'm not sure, and I'm probably
    not the guy to ask.... But I think I'd handle it as something like that in my campaign.

    Gary

  2. #12
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    Re:[Birthright] - Stupid Elf Qu

    On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Pieter A de Jong wrote:

    > All right, this is another approach. However, I believe it is possible
    > to summon spirits through conjuration magic. Is it possible to conjure
    > forth a cerilian elf? Also, spirits that die usually reform given
    > time. Eg. all devils, demons, the like reform on their home plane when
    > they die (it does take many years). Does this happen to elves, and is
    > this the limiting factor on their population (there are so many elf
    > spirits to go around and no more)

    Woo-hoo! Fun stuff here!

    OK, in my conception, elves spirits when they die, dissipate into the
    spiritual aspects of the four material elements. From this spiritual
    stuff, elementals can be created: calling forth "spiritual fire" to form a
    cohesive, functioning, semi-sentient but temporary being composed of
    elemental fire. The same "spiritual elements" eventually recombine in the
    right form to create new baby elves in the act of elven procreation. So in
    effect, my answer to your question is yes, but that in my conception it's
    a more fluid process than a discrete one, at least on the spiritual level.
    Also illustrates why elves would see elementalism in the same way humans
    see necromancy.

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

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