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  1. #1
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Here is the last of the chapters. This one is different then the others since I have actually been working on it as things have come up. So this is not a word version of the original playtest version, but instead the latest working copy I have. Mostly been upgraded to 3.5.


    Some of the changes from the playtest version include:

    Dropping the prestige class list. This is a losing proposition since almost every month WotC is publishing additional prestige classes and it is impossible to keep up.

    Added a lot of info to the cohorts section including military cohorts.

    Modified the magic item section to recognize the sanctioned chap 2 info (and the restructured bloodline score system).

    Rewrote the determining EL of the party section (this is based on e-mails I have received from Skip Williams (formerly the Sage) when I asked him about it).

    There are many other changes but these are the basic ones.

    This chapter is IMO far from complete and should really be the last one finalized since it is where things that don't fit into the other chapters go. It also serves as the bridge for explaining things, such as cohorts, in more detail than in the other chapters.
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    Duane Eggert

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    Question that popped up from a local campaign:

    If Lts are considered Cohorts, is there a limit to the number that a Regent may have, a limit to the total number of levels that they may posess, or an individual cap on the level of each Lt.?

    I'd like to see some sort of clarification in this, and get peoples' opinions.
    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."

    - R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long

  3. #3
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Athos69@Aug 21 2004, 05:39 PM
    Question that popped up from a local campaign:

    If Lts are considered Cohorts, is there a limit to the number that a Regent may have, a limit to the total number of levels that they may posess, or an individual cap on the level of each Lt.?

    I'd like to see some sort of clarification in this, and get peoples' opinions.
    There is no limit to the number of cohorts a character can have (DMG pg 104).

    Cohorts must remain 1 exp point less than 1 level less than the one they are attached to. (DMG pg 105) That is they must be no closer than 2 levels lower than the PC.

    Exp awards for a cohort are different and don't come from the exp that a party gains they are dependent on what the one they are asociated with gains. (complicated calculation on pg 105 of the DMG)

    The table on pg 106 of the DMG lists the highest level that a cohort can begin with when gained by a PC.

    Since Lts are treated the same the same rules apply.

    That is what is meant the way it is presently written in Ch 8.

    Now that doesn't mean that a DM can't come up with specific exceptions, like a long standing aide to the family or the like as far a level goes.
    Duane Eggert

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    Thanks Duane -- I was searching p. 106 for the info...
    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."

    - R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long

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    Athos69 schrieb:



    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...ST&f=36&t=2798

    >

    > Athos69 wrote:

    > Question that popped up from a local campaign:If Lts are considered Cohorts, is there a limit to the number that a Regent may have, a limit to the total number of levels that they may posess, or an individual cap on the level of each Lt.? I`d like to see some sort of clarification in this, and get peoples` opinions.

    >

    The first question would be if you actually use the BRCS or are still

    playing using 2E rules in your local campaign?

    In 2E Lieutenenats used the henchman table from the PHBthat used the CHA

    of the regent, modified by the PC´s bloodline strenght and having the

    Leadership nonweaponproficiency or not.

    bye

    Michael

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    I must say I have a different vision of how Lt's should be awarded. It seems that Lt's would be more likely attracted to a powerful kingdom, than a high level regent. We should figure out a cost for Lt's per level, with any kingdom with the necesary finances being able to hire the Lt's. Then leadership feat should allow a regent to recruit a single extra Lt at 2 levels lower than their character level for free. This is not to say that the regent could not also attract as many cohorts as they wish, but these are invididuals who are attracted to adventuring, not administrating.

    As for cost, I would suggest between 1/2 to 1 GB per level of the Lt.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  7. #7
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    The logic for Lts being cohorts goes like this (same as for bodyguards and followers).

    In 2nd ed Lts counted as henchmen. The max number was determined by the character's Charisma score. The max level of henchmen was limited to 1 level less than the character or they left. The Lts were treated the same in this regard and they counted towards the maximum number of henchmen a character could have. In BR the scion's max level (for henchmen and Lts) was increased based on the strength of his bloodline (minor, major, great) as was the regents effective Charisma.

    In 3/3.5 this 'automatic' option went away and the character had to purchase the Leadership feat in order to gain any cohorts. Cohorts are limited to 2 levels less than the character, they don't go away they just don't gain any experience. The effective charisma difference is handled by increasing the Leadership score via scion class levels, thus increasing the number of followers and level of cohorts attracted (both are based on leadership score as well as character level).

    In 2nd ed bodyguards were the same as followers. Check the tables from the BRRB and the PHB for fighters, thieves and clerics. If a character had a stronghold (in the PHB) they automatically gained followes. In BR this was assumed to be the case for regents, and only regents gained bodyguards. There was an exception made for wizards (that is if all they had was source holdings they didn't gain any followers).

    In 3/3.5 again this gain of followers is not automatic. A character has to take the Leadership feat in order to gain followers. Same logic applies to bodyguards.

    Chap 8 has some variants that allow for early acquistion of Leadership feat. Either as a free equivalent or just early (no 6th level prerequisite).

    Now I see no reason to deviate from the core rules in this logic. Since the 2nd ed BRRB really didn't deviate either. Regents just got things earlier, but the rules were still followed.

    3.5 eliminated the maximum number of cohorts a character could have. So the rules presented are consistent with that.

    The concept of having Lts (ala cohorts) serve the kingdom vice serving the regent is not unheard of, but it is more focused on serving a family rather than blindly a kingdom. In 2nd ed they mentioned making some exceptions as regarding the level of the Lt and the regent, but regardless they still served the person holding the position. If they didn't, then when the ursuption of power happened in Osoerde when Raenech stole the throne from Moergen then any Lts there would still be serving the kingdom (bad call IMO). IMO Lts follow a person, advisors can serve a kingdom much more readily. There is a difference between advisors and Lts.

    As far as paying Lts (and cohorts for that matter). 3.5 did away with the section talking about how they should be paid based on their class and level, so there is no real guideline in the core rules for paying them. I don't really like this change and the 'old' 3.0 words could be added as a variant pretty easily, IMO. Much like the 3.5 rules don't have cohorts (Lts) or followers (bodyguards) counting towards the division of exp points. This was added as a variant in Chap 8 to account for this division. The reason to make them variants is to keep the default rules as close as possible to the core rules, regardless of how frequently people use the variants.
    Duane Eggert

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    I agree with your logic, just not the rule in practice. In a few months a regent with leadership can get Lt's for every important domain action with all the specialized feats. I think their should be some mechanism to limit the number of free Lt's a regent has access to.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  9. #9
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by The Jew@Aug 22 2004, 06:46 PM
    I agree with your logic, just not the rule in practice. In a few months a regent with leadership can get Lt's for every important domain action with all the specialized feats. I think their should be some mechanism to limit the number of free Lt's a regent has access to.
    Actually IMO, either Ch 8 or better Ch 5 needs to be written to include the description of gaining Lts from the BoR. This is much more limiting (and realistic)method of gaining Lts. They have to be developed over time, a regent can't just go and advertise to fill a slot.

    I mean if a regent is going to entrust his entire domain to a Lt he better be pretty darn sure that this Lt is trustworthy enough for the task.

    This would pretty much eliminate the need to place a monetary limit or actual number limit on Lts a regent can have.

    What I meant to emphasize was that a Lt is a super cohort just like in 2nd ed he was a super henchem.
    Duane Eggert

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