Paladins for Everyone

[The Olesens]

Well I was looking through the Netbook and came across the Paladins of Erik. I thought
about it and figured most gods have some form of a paladin. Here are my ideas:

Haelyn: Look in the book
Aeric: There is one in the PHB, try and guess
Cuiraicen: In book
Nesire: In book
Avaini: Book
Ruonil: I guess he wouldn't have Paladins
Benelik: Not a paladin per se but a Warrior/Priest type guy yes
Krisha: See Benelik
Eoele: Give thieves some priest spells
Lareme: Okay, not here
Any I missed?

[Brett Lang]

Instead of going to all this effort ?

Why not just use the CRUSADER class from the PLAYERS OPTION: SPELLS & MAGIC
for the priestly-warrior elite of the various faiths?


- -----Original Message-----
From: The Olesens
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Sunday, 20 September 1998 12:04
Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Paladins for Everyone


>Well I was looking through the Netbook and came across the Paladins of
Erik. I thought
>about it and figured most gods have some form of a paladin. Here are my
ideas:
>
>Haelyn: Look in the book
>Aeric: There is one in the PHB, try and guess
>Cuiraicen: In book
>Nesire: In book
>Avaini: Book
>Ruonil: I guess he wouldn't have Paladins
>Benelik: Not a paladin per se but a Warrior/Priest type guy yes
>Krisha: See Benelik
>Eoele: Give thieves some priest spells
>Lareme: Okay, not here
>Any I missed?
>
>************************************************* **************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

[Ian Grey]

>Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:53:06 -0400
>From: The Olesens
>
>Well I was looking through the Netbook and came across the Paladins of
Erik. I thought
>about it and figured most gods have some form of a paladin. Here are
my ideas:
>

>Ruonil: I guess he wouldn't have Paladins
>Benelik: Not a paladin per se but a Warrior/Priest type guy yes
>Krisha: See Benelik
>Eoele: Give thieves some priest spells
>Lareme: Okay, not here
>Any I missed?
>

In the "Players Secrets of Medoere" one of the domain adventure-seeds
revolves around a holy sword the regent has access to but can't use.
This sword is being saved for a "Champion of Medoere" - a Palladin
(presumably) of Ruornil. Although no mention of such characters have
cropped up elsewhere as far as I know, I get the feeling (from this
adventure seed) that the diety may be interested there being a first...

Grendel

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[Gary V. Foss]

Brett Lang wrote:

> Instead of going to all this effort ?
>
> Why not just use the CRUSADER class from the PLAYERS OPTION: SPELLS & MAGIC
> for the priestly-warrior elite of the various faiths?

Regarding paladins:

The most restrictive thing about being a paladin is the charisma requirement. A
17? That's nuts! This is amazingly restrictive for a character class that is
basically a warrior with a few special skills and priestly magic. The
restrictions to the character class regarding magic items are pretty stiff too.
Since paladins use the same experience point requirements as rangers, shouldn't
they have similar ability score requirements?

The rationale behind the charisma requirement is that paladins are supposed to
be these amazingly magnetic personalities that can lead and inspire, etc. But
requiring a higher charisma than bards (who supposedly make their living through
the use of their charisma) seems a little odd to me. Not to mention the fact
that a holy warrior who does not need to be nearly as strong as he is pretty
doesn't make as much sense to me either.

I've experimented with making the charisma requirement for paladins 15 in my
Cataclysm Campaign and it has worked out quite well. I borrowed from the BR
setting the individual characteristics of paladins following different deities,
changed the alignment requirement depending on the patron deity and relaxed some
of the magic item restrictions, making them more similar to rangers. These guys
work perfectly well in my non-Birthright campaign, so I'm thinking about doing
something similar in BR.

I know this is a pretty drastic change from the standard rules, and might meet a
lot of resistence out there, but I think the changes make a lot of sense and
work really well in gaming sessions. What do you folks think?

Gary

[Gary V. Foss]

Ian Grey wrote:

> In the "Players Secrets of Medoere" one of the domain adventure-seeds
> revolves around a holy sword the regent has access to but can't use.
> This sword is being saved for a "Champion of Medoere" - a Palladin
> (presumably) of Ruornil. Although no mention of such characters have
> cropped up elsewhere as far as I know, I get the feeling (from this
> adventure seed) that the diety may be interested there being a first...

I probably should have included this in my previous post regarding paladins...
This is what I used for Journal's paladins in my campaign:

Ruornil's paladins are neutral good. (This kind of suits the nature of the
god, IMO, as well as his priests whose alignment restriction is "any neutral."
It also rounds out the good aligned paladin list in the setting, giving the
possibilities a nice circular feel to it, which is nice....) They fight a
never ending battle to protect the sources of mebhaighl from destruction and
against incursions of the Shadow world. They gain an additional +1 on their
attack rolls and saving throws when the moon is in the sky, gain their spells
at 7th level rather than 9th and can turn undead as a priest of equal level
rather than two levels below their current level.

Gary

[MANTA]

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> Well I was looking through the Netbook and came across the Paladins of
Erik. I thought
> about it and figured most gods have some form of a paladin. Here are my
ideas:
>
> Haelyn: Look in the book
> Aeric: There is one in the PHB, try and guess




SEEKER variant
(Ranger Kit - modified from "The complete Ranger´s Handbook"

Description: Devoted to spiritual awareness and self enlightenment, the
Seeker´s deep beliefs affect him more than any other element of his
life.The Seeker seeks fulfillment by following the tenents of Erik.
Seekers come almost exclusively from the Rjurik lands (there is no recorded
case of a non-Rjuric Seeker but it is theoretically possible they exist).
All Seekers begin (develop and end) their spiritual quests as students (and
bodyguards) of the Druids. Some characteristics common to most Seekers are
personal responsability, discipline and self-sacrifice.
Requirements: Str 13, Dex 13, Con 14, Wis 15
Primary terrain: Any apropriate (usually sub-artic forest or plains).
Role: Rjurik people (even the most lawless and violent) revere the Seekers
as protectors of Druids they are.
Non-agressive by nature, Seekers avoid combat whenever possible, but fight
fearlessly to thwart attacks against the Druids or any follower, comrade or
any Rjurik unable to fend for himself and worthy of his protection. a
Seeker is reluctant to take another life except to protect the Druids or
anyone they deem worthy of their protection.
Weapon Proficiencies: Required: Religion (Erik)
Seeker of the Oaken Grove of Erik
Required: One craft proficiency (subject to DM´s approval)
Bonus (at 5th level): Seamanship or animal lore or another related craft
proficiency of the player´s choice (subject to the approval of the DM)
Seeker of the Emerald Spire
Required: Survival (subartic forest or plains), hunting
Bonus (at 4th level): Hunting
Armor: Studded leather, wooden shield (very rare).
Weapons: Axe, bow club, dagger, dart, harpoon, javelin, knife, morning
star, quarterstaff, sling, spear.
Species enemy: None (that´s right, NONE).
Followers: All creatures except druids and elves are elegible as followers.
Special Benefits:
Increased access to spells: Unlike other rangers, Seekers acquire spells
when they reach 6th level. They can also cast 4th level spells.
Seekers have access to spells from an extra sphere in adition to those of
plant and animal. When he reaches 6th level, he choses an extra sphere from
the following options: All, Elemental (only one subsphere), Healing,
Summoning or Weather.

Seeker Spell Progression:

Seeker Casting Priest Spell Levels
Level Level 1 2 3 4
1-5
6 1 1
7 2 2
8 3 2 1
9 4 2 2
10 5 2 2 1
11 6 3 2 1
12 7 3 2 2
13 8 3 3 2 1
14 9 3 3 3 1
15 10 4 4 3 1
16+ 11 4 4 3 2

Special Hindrances:
A Seeker must allways be afiliated to an order of Erik or seek so. A Seeker
must allways do his best to fulfil any order of a priest of Erik of at
least 3rd level. Should he ignore one (even a simple and little important
one) he will lose ALL special benefits of the Seeker kit AND the Ranger
Class and will be considered a Fighter for all purposes. He will be shunned
by every Rjurik that knows his tale and will singlemindedly seek atonement
from the Druids at any cost.

As a Ranger kit Seekers follow all normal Ranger rules that do not
interfere with these rules (tracking, two weapon fighting, animal empathy,
etc).
This kit is a modification for Cerilia of the original Seeker ranger from
Rick Swan.





> Cuiraicen: In book
> Nesire: In book
> Avaini: Book
> Ruonil: I guess he wouldn't have Paladins
> Benelik: Not a paladin per se but a Warrior/Priest type guy yes






WARRIOR OF BELINIK
(Warrior class - Warrior HD, Thac0, Saves, Magic Item use restrictions, and
proficiency advancement)

Requirements: Wis 9, Str 17, Con 13
Prime Req: Strength and Constitution
Alignment: LE, NE, CE
Weapons: Any (usually Battle Axe as it is the symbol of Belinik - OK it´s
two crossed axes but it´s close enough)
Armor: Any, no shield
Spell Spheres: Combat, Protection, Summoning, War (TOM)
Magical Items: As Paladin (except holy sword use of course)
Power Over Undead: Turn: No
Command: No
Powers: 1) May specialize in a weapon following the rules for fighters
5) +1 to Str and Con (18 maximum - if the Character already has 18 Str
skip one exceptional Str bracket -ex.: 18.78 becomes 18.91. If the
Character already has 18.00 add 1 to all Dmg rolls for that Character - You
now have the strogest human in Cerilia!)
7) +2 to all saves vs, mind affecting magic
9) Spell use as a Paladin
Restrictions: May not possess more than 10 magical items, never retains
wealth, must tithe, does not attract followers, can only have Henchemen of
his alignement who worship Belinik
Required Proficiency: Riding (horses)
Bonus Proficiency: Intimidation
Regency collection: As paladin
Level Advancement (XP): As paladin

Warriors of Belinik are not born, they are trained. Every year the
strongest boys in Vosgaard are taken by the priests of Belinik for a
special training. During the following years they go through a rigorous
training (and brainwashing) process. Should they survive they become the
elite of the temple: the Warriors of Belinik - full time servants of the
temple ready to fulfil the Priest´s every wish - the beginning of service
starts with an oath in the witch the Warrior swears to carry out every
order of a higher ranking priest. Not a regular fighter, socialy the
Warrior of Belinik is at the same level as the Priests (top of the food
chain). They follow Belinik´s dogma even if it means their death (and
usually it does). During the training process the priests aim to train LE
Warriors (who will honor the oath). Should they be too strong willed for
that the priests will instead try to make them CE as NE Warriors are the
most dangerous. CE Warriors usually become rogues spreading terror
throughout Vosgaard, serving warlords for the pure pleasure of the battle.
Some serve at Churches but in these cases the High Priest must be powerfull
enough to keep them (some eventually turn on their masters). The rarer and
most dangerous alignment for a Warrior of Belinik is NE - they are not
bound by the oath (as LE Warriors are) and are not so bloodthirsthy that
they cannot be a part of a social structure without ruling it (CE
Warriors). They can play by the Priests rules as long as it suits them
until they finally make the move that takes them to the top of the
hierarchy. At least one Order of Belinik ended due to a NE Warrior of
Belinik Regent - that killed the former high priest of course - (their
inability to use Realm Spells and low regency collection proved to be
enough to cause the downfall of any Order they rule).



> Krisha: See Benelik

I don´t think they should have any type of Paladins.


> Eoele: Give thieves some priest spells
> Lareme: Okay, not here
> Any I missed?
>


MANTA
ip209007@ip.pt
ICQ: 17080887














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> Well I was looking through the =
Netbook and came across the Paladins of Erik.  I thought> =
about it and figured most gods have some form of a paladin.  Here =
are my ideas:> > Haelyn: Look in the book> Aeric: =
There is one in the PHB, try and guessSEEKER =
variant(Ranger Kit - modified from "The complete Ranger=B4s =
Handbook"Description: Devoted to spiritual awareness =
and self enlightenment, the Seeker=B4s deep beliefs affect him more than =
any other element of his life.The Seeker seeks fulfillment by following =
the tenents of Erik.Seekers come almost exclusively from the Rjurik =
lands (there is no recorded case of a non-Rjuric Seeker but it is =
theoretically possible they exist). All Seekers begin (develop and end) =
their spiritual quests as students (and bodyguards) of the Druids. Some =
characteristics common to most Seekers are personal responsability, =
discipline and self-sacrifice.Requirements: Str 13, Dex 13, =
Con 14, Wis 15Primary terrain: Any apropriate (usually =
sub-artic forest or plains).Role: Rjurik people (even the =
most lawless and violent) revere the Seekers as protectors of Druids =
they are.Non-agressive by nature, Seekers avoid combat whenever =
possible, but fight fearlessly to thwart attacks against the Druids or =
any follower, comrade or any Rjurik unable to fend for himself and =
worthy of his protection. a Seeker is reluctant to take another life =
except to protect the Druids or anyone they deem worthy of their =
protection.Weapon Proficiencies: Required: Religion =
(Erik)Seeker of the Oaken Grove of ErikRequired: One =
craft proficiency (subject to DM=B4s approval)Bonus (at 5th level): =
Seamanship or animal lore or another related craft =
proficiency of the player=B4s choice (subject to the approval of the =
DM)Seeker of the Emerald SpireRequired: Survival =
(subartic forest or plains), huntingBonus (at 4th level): =
HuntingArmor: Studded leather, wooden shield (very =
rare).Weapons: Axe, bow club, dagger, dart, harpoon, javelin, =
knife, morning star, quarterstaff, sling, spear.Species =
enemy: None (that=B4s right, NONE).Followers: All =
creatures except druids and elves are elegible as =
followers.Special Benefits: Increased access to =
spells: Unlike other rangers, Seekers acquire spells when they reach =
6th level. They can also cast 4th level spells.Seekers have access =
to spells from an extra sphere in adition to those of plant and animal. =
When he reaches 6th level, he choses an extra sphere from the following =
options: All, Elemental (only one subsphere), Healing, Summoning or =
Weather.Seeker Spell =
Progression:Seeker Casting Priest Spell =
LevelsLevel Level 1     2 =
    3 =
    41-5 =
     6 =
  1 1    7 =
  2 28   3 2 =
    19   4 2 =
    210   5 2 =
    2     111 =
  6 3     2 =
    112   7 3 =
    2     213 =
  8 3     3 =
    2     114 =
  9 3     3 =
    3     115 =
 10 4     4 =
    3     116+ =
 11 4     4 =
    3     2Special =
Hindrances: A Seeker must allways be afiliated to an order of =
Erik or seek so. A Seeker must allways do his best to fulfil any order =
of a priest of Erik of at least 3rd level. Should he ignore one (even a =
simple and little important one) he will lose ALL special benefits of =
the Seeker kit AND the Ranger Class and will be considered a Fighter for =
all purposes. He will be shunned by every Rjurik that knows his tale and =
will singlemindedly seek atonement from the Druids at any =
cost.As a Ranger kit Seekers follow all normal Ranger rules that =
do not interfere with these rules (tracking, two weapon fighting, animal =
empathy, etc).This kit is a modification for Cerilia of the original =
Seeker ranger from Rick Swan. =
   > Cuiraicen: In book> Nesire: In =
book> Avaini: Book> Ruonil: I guess he wouldn't have =
Paladins> Benelik: Not a paladin per se but a Warrior/Priest type =
guy yesWARRIOR OF BELINIK(Warrior =
class - Warrior HD, Thac0, Saves, Magic Item use restrictions, and =
proficiency advancement)Requirements: Wis 9, Str 17, Con =
13Prime Req: Strength and ConstitutionAlignment: =
LE, NE, CEWeapons: Any (usually Battle Axe as it is the =
symbol of Belinik - OK it=B4s two crossed axes but it=B4s close =
enough)Armor: Any, no shieldSpell Spheres: Combat, =
Protection, Summoning, War (TOM)Magical Items: As Paladin =
(except holy sword use of course)Power Over  Undead: =
Turn: No =
        &n bsp; Command: =
NoPowers: 1) May specialize in a weapon following the rules =
for fighters     5) +1 to Str and Con (18 =
maximum - if the Character already has 18 Str skip one exceptional Str =
bracket -ex.: 18.78 becomes 18.91. If the Character already has 18.00 =
add 1 to all Dmg rolls for that Character - You now have the strogest =
human in Cerilia!) 7) +2 to all saves vs, mind affecting =
magic 9) Spell use as a PaladinRestrictions: May =
not possess more than 10 magical items, never retains wealth, must =
tithe, does not attract followers, can only have Henchemen of his =
alignement who worship BelinikRequired Proficiency: Riding =
(horses)Bonus Proficiency: Intimidation Regency =
collection: As paladinLevel Advancement (XP): As =
paladinWarriors of Belinik are not born, they are trained. Every =
year the strongest boys in Vosgaard are taken by the priests of Belinik =
for a special training. During the following years they go through a =
rigorous training (and brainwashing) process. Should they survive they =
become the elite of the temple: the Warriors of Belinik - full time =
servants of the temple ready to fulfil the Priest=B4s every wish - the =
beginning of service starts with an oath in the witch the Warrior swears =
to carry out every order of a higher ranking priest. Not a regular =
fighter, socialy the Warrior of Belinik is at the same level as the =
Priests (top of the food chain). They follow Belinik=B4s dogma even if =
it means their death (and usually it does). During the training process =
the priests aim to train LE Warriors (who will honor the oath). Should =
they be too strong willed for that the priests will instead try to make =
them CE as NE Warriors are the most dangerous. CE Warriors usually =
become rogues spreading terror throughout Vosgaard, serving warlords for =
the pure pleasure of the battle. Some serve at Churches but in these =
cases the High Priest must be powerfull enough to keep them (some =
eventually turn on their masters). The rarer and most dangerous =
alignment for a Warrior of Belinik is NE - they are not bound by the =
oath (as LE Warriors are) and are not so bloodthirsthy that they cannot =
be a part of a social structure without ruling it (CE Warriors). They =
can play by the Priests rules as long as it suits them until they =
finally make the move that takes them to the top of the hierarchy. At =
least one Order of Belinik ended due to a NE Warrior of Belinik Regent - =
that killed the former high priest of course - (their inability to use =
Realm Spells and low regency collection proved to be enough to cause the =
downfall of any Order they rule). > Krisha: See =
BenelikI don=B4t think they should have any type of Paladins. =
> Eoele: Give thieves some priest spells> Lareme: =
Okay, not here> Any I missed?> =
MANTAip209007@ip.ptICQ: 17080887 =
     

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[Jan Arnoldus]

At 01:59 20-09-98 -0700, you wrote:
>Brett Lang wrote:
>
>> Instead of going to all this effort ?
>>
>> Why not just use the CRUSADER class from the PLAYERS OPTION: SPELLS & MAGIC
>> for the priestly-warrior elite of the various faiths?
>
>Regarding paladins:
>
>The most restrictive thing about being a paladin is the charisma
requirement. A
>17? That's nuts! This is amazingly restrictive for a character class that is
>basically a warrior with a few special skills and priestly magic. The
>restrictions to the character class regarding magic items are pretty stiff too.
>Since paladins use the same experience point requirements as rangers, shouldn't
>they have similar ability score requirements?
>
>The rationale behind the charisma requirement is that paladins are supposed to
>be these amazingly magnetic personalities that can lead and inspire, etc. But
>requiring a higher charisma than bards (who supposedly make their living
through
>the use of their charisma) seems a little odd to me. Not to mention the fact
>that a holy warrior who does not need to be nearly as strong as he is pretty
>doesn't make as much sense to me either.
>

The difference between a Bard and a Paladin is that the Bard needs to make
his living by his charisma. The paladin needs his charisma to convince
people to take up swords against their oppressors and risk their lives.
This is quite a difference and in my view does justify the extremely high
charisma requirement.

Jan Arnoldus

[Gary V. Foss]

Jan Arnoldus wrote:

> The difference between a Bard and a Paladin is that the Bard needs to make
> his living by his charisma. The paladin needs his charisma to convince
> people to take up swords against their oppressors and risk their lives.
> This is quite a difference and in my view does justify the extremely high
> charisma requirement.

Have you ever actually had a paladin do that with any regularity in a campaign? I
can't remember it happening in a campaign I ran, at least not any more than the rest
of the PCs inspired people to take up swords against their oppressors....

Gary

[Ryan Freire]

>Have you ever actually had a paladin do that with any regularity in a
campaign? I
>can't remember it happening in a campaign I ran, at least not any more
than the rest
>of the PCs inspired people to take up swords against their
oppressors....
>
>Gary

That comes from the players not playing the paladin well, Dragon
Magazine has a very good article about roleplaying high charismas in
number 243, basically outlining how a paladin should act to show a high
charisma and still be a noble holy warrior. The purpose of a paladin is
to spread the faith and inspire people to want to worship his deity, the
same as priests (who i think should have high charisma's as well) and
people arent going to want to follow someone who isnt any more
charismatic than a good barmaid, much less someone who is offensive and
holier-than-thou.

As for the thought of paladins for everyone, the closest i think erik
would come would be a ranger, ruonil would be more interested in fighter
mages, or solid mages. i see belinik as being the only evil diety to
actually have the antipaladin, seeing as kriesha comes off as more
priestly, and elole has her thieves, who operate more in her style.

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[Ian Grey]

>From: "Gary V. Foss"
>
>Jan Arnoldus wrote:
>
>> The difference between a Bard and a Paladin is that the Bard needs to
make
>> his living by his charisma. The paladin needs his charisma to
convince
>> people to take up swords against their oppressors and risk their
lives.
>> This is quite a difference and in my view does justify the extremely
high
>> charisma requirement.
>
>Have you ever actually had a paladin do that with any regularity in a
campaign? I
>can't remember it happening in a campaign I ran, at least not any more
than the rest
>of the PCs inspired people to take up swords against their
oppressors....
>
>Gary
>

Although palladins are relatively uncommon in my campain (wich is as it
should be...) those that were made themselves count & usualy backed up
their charisma with good role-playing. They were the heroes everyone
else looked up to & were willing to die for...

Mind you, the next best thing for pulling folks together in a pinch was
usualy a bard.

Grendel

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