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  1. #1
    The Olesens
    Guest

    Paladins for Everyone

    Well I was looking through the Netbook and came across the Paladins of Erik. I thought
    about it and figured most gods have some form of a paladin. Here are my ideas:

    Haelyn: Look in the book
    Aeric: There is one in the PHB, try and guess
    Cuiraicen: In book
    Nesire: In book
    Avaini: Book
    Ruonil: I guess he wouldn't have Paladins
    Benelik: Not a paladin per se but a Warrior/Priest type guy yes
    Krisha: See Benelik
    Eoele: Give thieves some priest spells
    Lareme: Okay, not here
    Any I missed?

  2. #2
    Brett Lang
    Guest

    Paladins for Everyone

    Instead of going to all this effort ?

    Why not just use the CRUSADER class from the PLAYERS OPTION: SPELLS & MAGIC
    for the priestly-warrior elite of the various faiths?


    - -----Original Message-----
    From: The Olesens
    To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    Date: Sunday, 20 September 1998 12:04
    Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Paladins for Everyone


    >Well I was looking through the Netbook and came across the Paladins of
    Erik. I thought
    >about it and figured most gods have some form of a paladin. Here are my
    ideas:
    >
    >Haelyn: Look in the book
    >Aeric: There is one in the PHB, try and guess
    >Cuiraicen: In book
    >Nesire: In book
    >Avaini: Book
    >Ruonil: I guess he wouldn't have Paladins
    >Benelik: Not a paladin per se but a Warrior/Priest type guy yes
    >Krisha: See Benelik
    >Eoele: Give thieves some priest spells
    >Lareme: Okay, not here
    >Any I missed?
    >
    >************************************************* **************************
    >>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    >

  3. #3
    Ian Grey
    Guest

    Paladins for Everyone

    >Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:53:06 -0400
    >From: The Olesens
    >
    >Well I was looking through the Netbook and came across the Paladins of
    Erik. I thought
    >about it and figured most gods have some form of a paladin. Here are
    my ideas:
    >

    >Ruonil: I guess he wouldn't have Paladins
    >Benelik: Not a paladin per se but a Warrior/Priest type guy yes
    >Krisha: See Benelik
    >Eoele: Give thieves some priest spells
    >Lareme: Okay, not here
    >Any I missed?
    >

    In the "Players Secrets of Medoere" one of the domain adventure-seeds
    revolves around a holy sword the regent has access to but can't use.
    This sword is being saved for a "Champion of Medoere" - a Palladin
    (presumably) of Ruornil. Although no mention of such characters have
    cropped up elsewhere as far as I know, I get the feeling (from this
    adventure seed) that the diety may be interested there being a first...

    Grendel

    __________________________________________________ ____
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  4. #4
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Paladins for Everyone

    Brett Lang wrote:

    > Instead of going to all this effort ?
    >
    > Why not just use the CRUSADER class from the PLAYERS OPTION: SPELLS & MAGIC
    > for the priestly-warrior elite of the various faiths?

    Regarding paladins:

    The most restrictive thing about being a paladin is the charisma requirement. A
    17? That's nuts! This is amazingly restrictive for a character class that is
    basically a warrior with a few special skills and priestly magic. The
    restrictions to the character class regarding magic items are pretty stiff too.
    Since paladins use the same experience point requirements as rangers, shouldn't
    they have similar ability score requirements?

    The rationale behind the charisma requirement is that paladins are supposed to
    be these amazingly magnetic personalities that can lead and inspire, etc. But
    requiring a higher charisma than bards (who supposedly make their living through
    the use of their charisma) seems a little odd to me. Not to mention the fact
    that a holy warrior who does not need to be nearly as strong as he is pretty
    doesn't make as much sense to me either.

    I've experimented with making the charisma requirement for paladins 15 in my
    Cataclysm Campaign and it has worked out quite well. I borrowed from the BR
    setting the individual characteristics of paladins following different deities,
    changed the alignment requirement depending on the patron deity and relaxed some
    of the magic item restrictions, making them more similar to rangers. These guys
    work perfectly well in my non-Birthright campaign, so I'm thinking about doing
    something similar in BR.

    I know this is a pretty drastic change from the standard rules, and might meet a
    lot of resistence out there, but I think the changes make a lot of sense and
    work really well in gaming sessions. What do you folks think?

    Gary

  5. #5
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Paladins for Everyone

    Ian Grey wrote:

    > In the "Players Secrets of Medoere" one of the domain adventure-seeds
    > revolves around a holy sword the regent has access to but can't use.
    > This sword is being saved for a "Champion of Medoere" - a Palladin
    > (presumably) of Ruornil. Although no mention of such characters have
    > cropped up elsewhere as far as I know, I get the feeling (from this
    > adventure seed) that the diety may be interested there being a first...

    I probably should have included this in my previous post regarding paladins...
    This is what I used for Journal's paladins in my campaign:

    Ruornil's paladins are neutral good. (This kind of suits the nature of the
    god, IMO, as well as his priests whose alignment restriction is "any neutral."
    It also rounds out the good aligned paladin list in the setting, giving the
    possibilities a nice circular feel to it, which is nice....) They fight a
    never ending battle to protect the sources of mebhaighl from destruction and
    against incursions of the Shadow world. They gain an additional +1 on their
    attack rolls and saving throws when the moon is in the sky, gain their spells
    at 7th level rather than 9th and can turn undead as a priest of equal level
    rather than two levels below their current level.

    Gary

  6. #6
    MANTA
    Guest

    Paladins for Everyone

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    > Well I was looking through the Netbook and came across the Paladins of
    Erik. I thought
    > about it and figured most gods have some form of a paladin. Here are my
    ideas:
    >
    > Haelyn: Look in the book
    > Aeric: There is one in the PHB, try and guess




    SEEKER variant
    (Ranger Kit - modified from "The complete Ranger┬┤s Handbook"

    Description: Devoted to spiritual awareness and self enlightenment, the
    Seeker┬┤s deep beliefs affect him more than any other element of his
    life.The Seeker seeks fulfillment by following the tenents of Erik.
    Seekers come almost exclusively from the Rjurik lands (there is no recorded
    case of a non-Rjuric Seeker but it is theoretically possible they exist).
    All Seekers begin (develop and end) their spiritual quests as students (and
    bodyguards) of the Druids. Some characteristics common to most Seekers are
    personal responsability, discipline and self-sacrifice.
    Requirements: Str 13, Dex 13, Con 14, Wis 15
    Primary terrain: Any apropriate (usually sub-artic forest or plains).
    Role: Rjurik people (even the most lawless and violent) revere the Seekers
    as protectors of Druids they are.
    Non-agressive by nature, Seekers avoid combat whenever possible, but fight
    fearlessly to thwart attacks against the Druids or any follower, comrade or
    any Rjurik unable to fend for himself and worthy of his protection. a
    Seeker is reluctant to take another life except to protect the Druids or
    anyone they deem worthy of their protection.
    Weapon Proficiencies: Required: Religion (Erik)
    Seeker of the Oaken Grove of Erik
    Required: One craft proficiency (subject to DM┬┤s approval)
    Bonus (at 5th level): Seamanship or animal lore or another related craft
    proficiency of the player┬┤s choice (subject to the approval of the DM)
    Seeker of the Emerald Spire
    Required: Survival (subartic forest or plains), hunting
    Bonus (at 4th level): Hunting
    Armor: Studded leather, wooden shield (very rare).
    Weapons: Axe, bow club, dagger, dart, harpoon, javelin, knife, morning
    star, quarterstaff, sling, spear.
    Species enemy: None (that┬┤s right, NONE).
    Followers: All creatures except druids and elves are elegible as followers.
    Special Benefits:
    Increased access to spells: Unlike other rangers, Seekers acquire spells
    when they reach 6th level. They can also cast 4th level spells.
    Seekers have access to spells from an extra sphere in adition to those of
    plant and animal. When he reaches 6th level, he choses an extra sphere from
    the following options: All, Elemental (only one subsphere), Healing,
    Summoning or Weather.

    Seeker Spell Progression:

    Seeker Casting Priest Spell Levels
    Level Level 1 2 3 4
    1-5
    6 1 1
    7 2 2
    8 3 2 1
    9 4 2 2
    10 5 2 2 1
    11 6 3 2 1
    12 7 3 2 2
    13 8 3 3 2 1
    14 9 3 3 3 1
    15 10 4 4 3 1
    16+ 11 4 4 3 2

    Special Hindrances:
    A Seeker must allways be afiliated to an order of Erik or seek so. A Seeker
    must allways do his best to fulfil any order of a priest of Erik of at
    least 3rd level. Should he ignore one (even a simple and little important
    one) he will lose ALL special benefits of the Seeker kit AND the Ranger
    Class and will be considered a Fighter for all purposes. He will be shunned
    by every Rjurik that knows his tale and will singlemindedly seek atonement
    from the Druids at any cost.

    As a Ranger kit Seekers follow all normal Ranger rules that do not
    interfere with these rules (tracking, two weapon fighting, animal empathy,
    etc).
    This kit is a modification for Cerilia of the original Seeker ranger from
    Rick Swan.





    > Cuiraicen: In book
    > Nesire: In book
    > Avaini: Book
    > Ruonil: I guess he wouldn't have Paladins
    > Benelik: Not a paladin per se but a Warrior/Priest type guy yes






    WARRIOR OF BELINIK
    (Warrior class - Warrior HD, Thac0, Saves, Magic Item use restrictions, and
    proficiency advancement)

    Requirements: Wis 9, Str 17, Con 13
    Prime Req: Strength and Constitution
    Alignment: LE, NE, CE
    Weapons: Any (usually Battle Axe as it is the symbol of Belinik - OK it┬┤s
    two crossed axes but it┬┤s close enough)
    Armor: Any, no shield
    Spell Spheres: Combat, Protection, Summoning, War (TOM)
    Magical Items: As Paladin (except holy sword use of course)
    Power Over Undead: Turn: No
    Command: No
    Powers: 1) May specialize in a weapon following the rules for fighters
    5) +1 to Str and Con (18 maximum - if the Character already has 18 Str
    skip one exceptional Str bracket -ex.: 18.78 becomes 18.91. If the
    Character already has 18.00 add 1 to all Dmg rolls for that Character - You
    now have the strogest human in Cerilia!)
    7) +2 to all saves vs, mind affecting magic
    9) Spell use as a Paladin
    Restrictions: May not possess more than 10 magical items, never retains
    wealth, must tithe, does not attract followers, can only have Henchemen of
    his alignement who worship Belinik
    Required Proficiency: Riding (horses)
    Bonus Proficiency: Intimidation
    Regency collection: As paladin
    Level Advancement (XP): As paladin

    Warriors of Belinik are not born, they are trained. Every year the
    strongest boys in Vosgaard are taken by the priests of Belinik for a
    special training. During the following years they go through a rigorous
    training (and brainwashing) process. Should they survive they become the
    elite of the temple: the Warriors of Belinik - full time servants of the
    temple ready to fulfil the Priest┬┤s every wish - the beginning of service
    starts with an oath in the witch the Warrior swears to carry out every
    order of a higher ranking priest. Not a regular fighter, socialy the
    Warrior of Belinik is at the same level as the Priests (top of the food
    chain). They follow Belinik┬┤s dogma even if it means their death (and
    usually it does). During the training process the priests aim to train LE
    Warriors (who will honor the oath). Should they be too strong willed for
    that the priests will instead try to make them CE as NE Warriors are the
    most dangerous. CE Warriors usually become rogues spreading terror
    throughout Vosgaard, serving warlords for the pure pleasure of the battle.
    Some serve at Churches but in these cases the High Priest must be powerfull
    enough to keep them (some eventually turn on their masters). The rarer and
    most dangerous alignment for a Warrior of Belinik is NE - they are not
    bound by the oath (as LE Warriors are) and are not so bloodthirsthy that
    they cannot be a part of a social structure without ruling it (CE
    Warriors). They can play by the Priests rules as long as it suits them
    until they finally make the move that takes them to the top of the
    hierarchy. At least one Order of Belinik ended due to a NE Warrior of
    Belinik Regent - that killed the former high priest of course - (their
    inability to use Realm Spells and low regency collection proved to be
    enough to cause the downfall of any Order they rule).



    > Krisha: See Benelik

    I don┬┤t think they should have any type of Paladins.


    > Eoele: Give thieves some priest spells
    > Lareme: Okay, not here
    > Any I missed?
    >


    MANTA
    ip209007@ip.pt
    ICQ: 17080887














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    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    > Well I was looking through the =
    Netbook and came across the Paladins of Erik.  I thought> =
    about it and figured most gods have some form of a paladin.  Here =
    are my ideas:> > Haelyn: Look in the book> Aeric: =
    There is one in the PHB, try and guessSEEKER =
    variant(Ranger Kit - modified from "The complete Ranger=B4s =
    Handbook"Description: Devoted to spiritual awareness =
    and self enlightenment, the Seeker=B4s deep beliefs affect him more than =
    any other element of his life.The Seeker seeks fulfillment by following =
    the tenents of Erik.Seekers come almost exclusively from the Rjurik =
    lands (there is no recorded case of a non-Rjuric Seeker but it is =
    theoretically possible they exist). All Seekers begin (develop and end) =
    their spiritual quests as students (and bodyguards) of the Druids. Some =
    characteristics common to most Seekers are personal responsability, =
    discipline and self-sacrifice.Requirements: Str 13, Dex 13, =
    Con 14, Wis 15Primary terrain: Any apropriate (usually =
    sub-artic forest or plains).Role: Rjurik people (even the =
    most lawless and violent) revere the Seekers as protectors of Druids =
    they are.Non-agressive by nature, Seekers avoid combat whenever =
    possible, but fight fearlessly to thwart attacks against the Druids or =
    any follower, comrade or any Rjurik unable to fend for himself and =
    worthy of his protection. a Seeker is reluctant to take another life =
    except to protect the Druids or anyone they deem worthy of their =
    protection.Weapon Proficiencies: Required: Religion =
    (Erik)Seeker of the Oaken Grove of ErikRequired: One =
    craft proficiency (subject to DM=B4s approval)Bonus (at 5th level): =
    Seamanship or animal lore or another related craft =
    proficiency of the player=B4s choice (subject to the approval of the =
    DM)Seeker of the Emerald SpireRequired: Survival =
    (subartic forest or plains), huntingBonus (at 4th level): =
    HuntingArmor: Studded leather, wooden shield (very =
    rare).Weapons: Axe, bow club, dagger, dart, harpoon, javelin, =
    knife, morning star, quarterstaff, sling, spear.Species =
    enemy: None (that=B4s right, NONE).Followers: All =
    creatures except druids and elves are elegible as =
    followers.Special Benefits: Increased access to =
    spells: Unlike other rangers, Seekers acquire spells when they reach =
    6th level. They can also cast 4th level spells.Seekers have access =
    to spells from an extra sphere in adition to those of plant and animal. =
    When he reaches 6th level, he choses an extra sphere from the following =
    options: All, Elemental (only one subsphere), Healing, Summoning or =
    Weather.Seeker Spell =
    Progression:Seeker Casting Priest Spell =
    LevelsLevel Level 1     2 =
        3 =
        41-5 =
         6 =
      1 1    7 =
      2 28   3 2 =
        19   4 2 =
        210   5 2 =
        2     111 =
      6 3     2 =
        112   7 3 =
        2     213 =
      8 3     3 =
        2     114 =
      9 3     3 =
        3     115 =
     10 4     4 =
        3     116+ =
     11 4     4 =
        3     2Special =
    Hindrances: A Seeker must allways be afiliated to an order of =
    Erik or seek so. A Seeker must allways do his best to fulfil any order =
    of a priest of Erik of at least 3rd level. Should he ignore one (even a =
    simple and little important one) he will lose ALL special benefits of =
    the Seeker kit AND the Ranger Class and will be considered a Fighter for =
    all purposes. He will be shunned by every Rjurik that knows his tale and =
    will singlemindedly seek atonement from the Druids at any =
    cost.As a Ranger kit Seekers follow all normal Ranger rules that =
    do not interfere with these rules (tracking, two weapon fighting, animal =
    empathy, etc).This kit is a modification for Cerilia of the original =
    Seeker ranger from Rick Swan. =
       > Cuiraicen: In book> Nesire: In =
    book> Avaini: Book> Ruonil: I guess he wouldn't have =
    Paladins> Benelik: Not a paladin per se but a Warrior/Priest type =
    guy yesWARRIOR OF BELINIK(Warrior =
    class - Warrior HD, Thac0, Saves, Magic Item use restrictions, and =
    proficiency advancement)Requirements: Wis 9, Str 17, Con =
    13Prime Req: Strength and ConstitutionAlignment: =
    LE, NE, CEWeapons: Any (usually Battle Axe as it is the =
    symbol of Belinik - OK it=B4s two crossed axes but it=B4s close =
    enough)Armor: Any, no shieldSpell Spheres: Combat, =
    Protection, Summoning, War (TOM)Magical Items: As Paladin =
    (except holy sword use of course)Power Over  Undead: =
    Turn: No =
            &n bsp; Command: =
    NoPowers: 1) May specialize in a weapon following the rules =
    for fighters     5) +1 to Str and Con (18 =
    maximum - if the Character already has 18 Str skip one exceptional Str =
    bracket -ex.: 18.78 becomes 18.91. If the Character already has 18.00 =
    add 1 to all Dmg rolls for that Character - You now have the strogest =
    human in Cerilia!) 7) +2 to all saves vs, mind affecting =
    magic 9) Spell use as a PaladinRestrictions: May =
    not possess more than 10 magical items, never retains wealth, must =
    tithe, does not attract followers, can only have Henchemen of his =
    alignement who worship BelinikRequired Proficiency: Riding =
    (horses)Bonus Proficiency: Intimidation Regency =
    collection: As paladinLevel Advancement (XP): As =
    paladinWarriors of Belinik are not born, they are trained. Every =
    year the strongest boys in Vosgaard are taken by the priests of Belinik =
    for a special training. During the following years they go through a =
    rigorous training (and brainwashing) process. Should they survive they =
    become the elite of the temple: the Warriors of Belinik - full time =
    servants of the temple ready to fulfil the Priest=B4s every wish - the =
    beginning of service starts with an oath in the witch the Warrior swears =
    to carry out every order of a higher ranking priest. Not a regular =
    fighter, socialy the Warrior of Belinik is at the same level as the =
    Priests (top of the food chain). They follow Belinik=B4s dogma even if =
    it means their death (and usually it does). During the training process =
    the priests aim to train LE Warriors (who will honor the oath). Should =
    they be too strong willed for that the priests will instead try to make =
    them CE as NE Warriors are the most dangerous. CE Warriors usually =
    become rogues spreading terror throughout Vosgaard, serving warlords for =
    the pure pleasure of the battle. Some serve at Churches but in these =
    cases the High Priest must be powerfull enough to keep them (some =
    eventually turn on their masters). The rarer and most dangerous =
    alignment for a Warrior of Belinik is NE - they are not bound by the =
    oath (as LE Warriors are) and are not so bloodthirsthy that they cannot =
    be a part of a social structure without ruling it (CE Warriors). They =
    can play by the Priests rules as long as it suits them until they =
    finally make the move that takes them to the top of the hierarchy. At =
    least one Order of Belinik ended due to a NE Warrior of Belinik Regent - =
    that killed the former high priest of course - (their inability to use =
    Realm Spells and low regency collection proved to be enough to cause the =
    downfall of any Order they rule). > Krisha: See =
    BenelikI don=B4t think they should have any type of Paladins. =
    > Eoele: Give thieves some priest spells> Lareme: =
    Okay, not here> Any I missed?> =
    MANTAip209007@ip.ptICQ: 17080887 =
         

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  7. #7
    Jan Arnoldus
    Guest

    Paladins for Everyone

    At 01:59 20-09-98 -0700, you wrote:
    >Brett Lang wrote:
    >
    >> Instead of going to all this effort ?
    >>
    >> Why not just use the CRUSADER class from the PLAYERS OPTION: SPELLS & MAGIC
    >> for the priestly-warrior elite of the various faiths?
    >
    >Regarding paladins:
    >
    >The most restrictive thing about being a paladin is the charisma
    requirement. A
    >17? That's nuts! This is amazingly restrictive for a character class that is
    >basically a warrior with a few special skills and priestly magic. The
    >restrictions to the character class regarding magic items are pretty stiff too.
    >Since paladins use the same experience point requirements as rangers, shouldn't
    >they have similar ability score requirements?
    >
    >The rationale behind the charisma requirement is that paladins are supposed to
    >be these amazingly magnetic personalities that can lead and inspire, etc. But
    >requiring a higher charisma than bards (who supposedly make their living
    through
    >the use of their charisma) seems a little odd to me. Not to mention the fact
    >that a holy warrior who does not need to be nearly as strong as he is pretty
    >doesn't make as much sense to me either.
    >

    The difference between a Bard and a Paladin is that the Bard needs to make
    his living by his charisma. The paladin needs his charisma to convince
    people to take up swords against their oppressors and risk their lives.
    This is quite a difference and in my view does justify the extremely high
    charisma requirement.

    Jan Arnoldus

  8. #8
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Paladins for Everyone

    Jan Arnoldus wrote:

    > The difference between a Bard and a Paladin is that the Bard needs to make
    > his living by his charisma. The paladin needs his charisma to convince
    > people to take up swords against their oppressors and risk their lives.
    > This is quite a difference and in my view does justify the extremely high
    > charisma requirement.

    Have you ever actually had a paladin do that with any regularity in a campaign? I
    can't remember it happening in a campaign I ran, at least not any more than the rest
    of the PCs inspired people to take up swords against their oppressors....

    Gary

  9. #9
    Ryan Freire
    Guest

    Paladins for Everyone

    >Have you ever actually had a paladin do that with any regularity in a
    campaign? I
    >can't remember it happening in a campaign I ran, at least not any more
    than the rest
    >of the PCs inspired people to take up swords against their
    oppressors....
    >
    >Gary

    That comes from the players not playing the paladin well, Dragon
    Magazine has a very good article about roleplaying high charismas in
    number 243, basically outlining how a paladin should act to show a high
    charisma and still be a noble holy warrior. The purpose of a paladin is
    to spread the faith and inspire people to want to worship his deity, the
    same as priests (who i think should have high charisma's as well) and
    people arent going to want to follow someone who isnt any more
    charismatic than a good barmaid, much less someone who is offensive and
    holier-than-thou.

    As for the thought of paladins for everyone, the closest i think erik
    would come would be a ranger, ruonil would be more interested in fighter
    mages, or solid mages. i see belinik as being the only evil diety to
    actually have the antipaladin, seeing as kriesha comes off as more
    priestly, and elole has her thieves, who operate more in her style.

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  10. #10
    Ian Grey
    Guest

    Paladins for Everyone

    >From: "Gary V. Foss"
    >
    >Jan Arnoldus wrote:
    >
    >> The difference between a Bard and a Paladin is that the Bard needs to
    make
    >> his living by his charisma. The paladin needs his charisma to
    convince
    >> people to take up swords against their oppressors and risk their
    lives.
    >> This is quite a difference and in my view does justify the extremely
    high
    >> charisma requirement.
    >
    >Have you ever actually had a paladin do that with any regularity in a
    campaign? I
    >can't remember it happening in a campaign I ran, at least not any more
    than the rest
    >of the PCs inspired people to take up swords against their
    oppressors....
    >
    >Gary
    >

    Although palladins are relatively uncommon in my campain (wich is as it
    should be...) those that were made themselves count & usualy backed up
    their charisma with good role-playing. They were the heroes everyone
    else looked up to & were willing to die for...

    Mind you, the next best thing for pulling folks together in a pinch was
    usualy a bard.

    Grendel

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  4. Paladins in birthright
    By Jan P. M. Arnoldus in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-12-1997, 02:39 AM

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