Guns

[darkstar]

There has been a lot of discussion recently about adding guns to
Birthright, possible in Aduria. Here are some rules I create a while
back that people who are considering this may find useful. I have
adjusted some small bits of the descriptions and lists so they fit
Aebrynis.
Enjoy....

-

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, darkstar wrote:

> Pouch: This small pouch is about the same size as a small belt pouch and
> has two compartments. One holds lead pellets for weapons, while the
> other contains the actual gun power. There is usually enough powder for
> ten shots. This item is usually carried by adventurers who use rifles or
> pistols. A small scoop is often included to make it easy to transfer the
> powder to the weapon.
>
> Infantry Pouch: This is an especially crafted pouch designed to solely
> to carry gun powder so that it can easily be used when reloading a
> weapon. Unlike the earlier pouches it is shaped similar to a flask with
> a stopper, and a nozzle for pouring the powder into the weapon. This
> item is generally carried by soldiers, and is not usually available to
> the public. Where it is though it costs twice that of a normal pouch. A
> leather string is attached so the pouch can her tried to a soldier's
> belt. This pouch carries enough powder for sixteen shots.

Were pouches ever actually used for gunpowder? Seems to me it would be too
prone to moisture problems.

I should mention that shortly after guns like these started being used a
little trick was developed that makes loading guns much faster. "Shots"
were prepaired by pouring a known volume of powder on a square of paper,
and then folding and twisting up the edges. When you were ready to load
the gun, you could rip off the top of the paper with your teeth, pour a
little powder in the pan for priming, lock down the pan, and then using
the paper "pouch" as a funnel pouring the powder down the barrel. The
paper is then wadded up and tamped down to keep the powder in place, and
then the ball is added. I would think any group that used units of gunmen
for any length of time would develop this (i.e. Adurians). This process
speeded up reloading to such an extent that a proficient gunman could get
off three shots a minute.

> Infantry Weapons:
>
> All weapons available on Aebrynis are flintlock weapons. They are loaded
> by pouring gun powder into the barrel of the weapon, dropping in a lead
> ball. A ramrod is then used to pack everything down in the barrel so
> when the weapon is fired the ball will be propelled with the correct
> amount of force. The tighter it is packed the more explosive force that
> results.

Historically, weren't matchlocks used before flintlocks? I just thought
that I should bring it up for people interested in developing the use of
guns in Cerilia. Matchlocks were even slower to load, and were much more
of a one-shot weapon, b/c the process of setting off the gunpowder was
accomplished not by sparks from a flint striking a stone, but by a
smouldering piece of string (the match). This meant that it is really easy
to set off the gunpowder prematurely when trying to unload. The rate of
misfire is also higher, and sometimes after you've pulled the trigger, it
takes a few moments before the match actually ignites the powder. The
flintlock is a much better weapon, but the earliest weapons should be
pretty inefficient. I would say that flintlocks are perfect for mysterious
Adurians, thought.

> The weapons have triggers that when pulled drive a hammer (containing a
> piece of flint) down on a steel coverplate. This drives the plate back
> and sending sparks into a small priming charge of power below. This then
> ignites the main charge which fires the gun.
> The weapon then has to be reloaded, the hammer pulled back and the
> priming charge replaced. It is a complicated process, but a skilled
> soldier (someone who is proficient in the weapon) can reload in two
> rounds. Less skilled soldiers, and novices can take anything from 3
> rounds, up to an entire turn to reload the weapon.
> The weapons also also prone to backfiring, and if this occurs then
> damage is done to the user instead of the target.

In addition to backfiring, these weapons were also prone to spewing out
burning gunpowder (if you happened to get some unevenly mixed, settled
down, or w/ impurities) out of the priming pan. Unlike a backfire, this
generally doesn't injure the user, and the ball is shot out of the barrel
as normal, but it CAN cause damage to anyone standing to the right of the
user (most guns were right-handed). When firing in formation, the people
on the left side had to stand one step ahead of the person immediately to
the right, causing a slanted front line (and the poor person on the far
left, furthest forward, was particularly susceptable to cavalry charges).

> Infantry Rifle: This long barrelled rifle is the standard infantry
> weapon in most military units. It has a slightly shorter range than the
> musket, and does less damage, but it is a lot more reliable and
> accurate. A soldier who has specialised in this weapon can reload it in
> just 2 rounds, which makes it a good weapon for infantry units.

Eventually, these will get detachable blades, called bayonettes, that can
be stuck on the end of these very long guns, which makes units of
riflemen much less succeptible to cavalry charges. But for some reason,
this simple idea took nearly 200 years to be conceived of in our world.

> Hunting Rifle: This weapon is especially crafted for noblemen who want
> to be hunters. It is expensive, but accurate and causes heavy damage
> should it hit. Its high cost means it does not find use with the
> military, but it is the most popular rifle among those who can afford
> it. It is mainly used for hunting parties out to hunt for sport.

Plus, think snipers. :)

> Although the principle of these weapons is similar to the rifles and
> pistols they are of considerably different design. There are two types
> of artillery weapons, cannons and mortars. The first, the cannon, are
> long barrelled weapons made of heavy cast iron. They fire large balls of

Or brass. Many of the early cannons were made of brass, which is easier to
mold into shape (lower melting point). In fact, I would rule that any
Cerilian nation that is to develop cannons would have to first develop
bell-making craft to a high precision. Many of the early cannons in RL
were cast by bell-makers.

Good stuff here. And very cool to have someone already work out all the
necessary stats. Thanks for the effort.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Jim Paterson]

Nice post, lots of work, but you've missed about 500 years of fire-arms
evolution.

As I understand it Birth Right is set in the late dark ages early renaissance.
The weapons you have put forward are all late Age of Reason or Napoleonic or latter.

A flint & pan was not invented until the 1700, the locking pan in the early 1800

before this they used matchlock pistols and guns or muskets. For the first 100 years
these were set off by a match carried separate to the gun, for the second 100 years
they were triggered by a spring loaded match attached to the gun. They are all very
interesting weapons and do fit into the Birth Right game with ease. Their primary
purpose is to defeat armour while not putting the owner at risk. Most were accurate
to only just beyond sword reach, so had their limitations.

The weapons I'd put forward for use in Birth Right would be the arberlister,
the match lock musket and the match lock pistol.

All count the target as being AC10, less any dexterity bonus.

ROF Rng Speed Dam
Arbelister 1-4 8" 1 3D6 short 2D6 med 1D6 long range vs man sized
opponents
3D4 short 2D4 medium 1D4 long range vs larger opponents
Match Lock 1-3 12" 1 3D8 short 2D8 med 1D8 long range vs men sized
opponents
1D6 short 2 D6 med 1D6 long range vs larger opponents
Matchlock pistol 1-3 6" 1 varies

Accessories would include

Powder horn - An animal horn with a cork stopper used to keep the powder dry - a must
Shot pouch - A pouch use to hold the shots - also a must
Match - A long length of rope or scrap material dipped in something to make it
smoulder slowly. The only modern use of this item is by fireworks people and is used to light the
fireworks. A smouldering match was used to fire cannons right up until the Napoleonic
period.

Bandoleer - Used from the English Civil War onwards, was a cross chest belt with
single charges and shot already measured and dry stored in horns or hard leather pouches. This item
came in about 100 years after the first guns

Spring Loaded Matchlock, also a came in about 150 years after the first guns, and was
first used by the Austrians against the Turks. It left the other hand free to steady the gun or hold
a sword or gunrest. It also meant that the shooter could use both hands too load the gun with-
out the need to hold the match between his teeth. It also improved aim because the shooter need
only worry about pulling a trigger mechanism, rather than place the match in the pan while also
trying to concentrate on aiming.

Rifled Flintlocks are perhaps the most deadly weapon you could introduce into a D&D
game! they are a late 1800's invention and would eliminate most monsters and other
non-rifled flintlock owning races in about one generation. Except for Xorns and Earth
Elementals who would treat them like a nice hot shower.





























Cheers; Jim Paterson

[darkstar]

Jim Paterson wrote:
>
> Nice post, lots of work, but you've missed about 500 years of fire-arms
> evolution.

Well the information was originally designed for a completely differnt
campaign world (a bit more advanced). I just posted it in case someone
might find it interesting.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss
Aduria: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Labyrinth/8099/

ICQ: 2938300 AIM: IHoskins

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

- ----- Begin Included Message -----

Nice post, lots of work, but you've missed about 500 years of fire-arms
evolution.

As I understand it Birth Right is set in the late dark ages early renaissance.
The weapons you have put forward are all late Age of Reason or Napoleonic or latter.

A flint & pan was not invented until the 1700, the locking pan in the early 1800

before this they used matchlock pistols and guns or muskets. For the first 100 years
these were set off by a match carried separate to the gun, for the second 100 years
they were triggered by a spring loaded match attached to the gun. They are all very
interesting weapons and do fit into the Birth Right game with ease. Their primary
purpose is to defeat armour while not putting the owner at risk. Most were accurate
to only just beyond sword reach, so had their limitations.

The weapons I'd put forward for use in Birth Right would be the arberlister,
the match lock musket and the match lock pistol.

All count the target as being AC10, less any dexterity bonus.

ROF Rng Speed Dam
Arbelister 1-4 8" 1 3D6 short 2D6 med 1D6 long range vs man sized
opponents
3D4 short 2D4 medium 1D4 long range vs larger opponents
Match Lock 1-3 12" 1 3D8 short 2D8 med 1D8 long range vs men sized
opponents
1D6 short 2 D6 med 1D6 long range vs larger opponents
Matchlock pistol 1-3 6" 1 varies

Accessories would include

Powder horn - An animal horn with a cork stopper used to keep the powder dry - a must
Shot pouch - A pouch use to hold the shots - also a must
Match - A long length of rope or scrap material dipped in something to make it
smoulder slowly. The only modern use of this item is by fireworks people and is used to light the
fireworks. A smouldering match was used to fire cannons right up until the Napoleonic
period.

Bandoleer - Used from the English Civil War onwards, was a cross chest belt with
single charges and shot already measured and dry stored in horns or hard leather pouches. This item
came in about 100 years after the first guns

Spring Loaded Matchlock, also a came in about 150 years after the first guns, and was
first used by the Austrians against the Turks. It left the other hand free to steady the gun or hold
a sword or gunrest. It also meant that the shooter could use both hands too load the gun with-
out the need to hold the match between his teeth. It also improved aim because the shooter need
only worry about pulling a trigger mechanism, rather than place the match in the pan while also
trying to concentrate on aiming.

Rifled Flintlocks are perhaps the most deadly weapon you could introduce into a D&D
game! they are a late 1800's invention and would eliminate most monsters and other
non-rifled flintlock owning races in about one generation. Except for Xorns and Earth
Elementals who would treat them like a nice hot shower.
- ----- End Included Message -----

I'd agree here. To fit into the "hundred years war" feeling of BR, any handheld
firearms should be quite primative. Rich Baker, BR designer and history buff,
does a great job with early firearms in Player's Option: Combat and Tactics.
This tome is a must for those considering firearms. Rich does most of the work
for you- that's why you pay TSR right?

One could argue over the nuances of firearm effects (in D&D terms) and rate
of development, but Rich's work is as valid (probably more so :)) as anyone
else's. Being a history fan myself, I've loved Rich's work. I'd heartily
suggest setting your BR campaign in the equivalent of the early 1300's if you
want bombards to develop, the late 1300s if you want monster bombards and early
hand-held guns, and the 1500s if you want matchlocks. Note also that plate mail
wasn't developed until early in this period- early 1300s that is. Don't give me
that hooey that this is fantasy and I'll do what I want (though ultimately, of
course, you can :)). Armor and weapon development is the result of a medieval
arms race. It's all very logical and there's no reason to believe that the
people of Cerilia are dumber than we were. Chainmail was made to defeat
slashing weapons, piercing and bludgeoning weapons were made to defeat chain,
Platemail was developed to hold up to these weapons, poleaxes and gunpowder
weapons were developed to defeat platemail- etc etc Gunpowder by no means
ruled the battlefield during this period (though it was important for seiges)
so I prefer having early artillery and firearms just to give the proper
roleplaying feel to the game.

Randax