Odp: Taxes and Law

[Duatha]

I see that some of us have different views on Law holdings... :)
I agree with Oyvin - part of tax are collected in "nature" - grain, food,
ale et cetera. Note that most of "non-urban" citizens haven't hard cash...

Are you sure that law holdings are only hired thugs/bandits/soldiers and
similiar personnel ? IMO level of Law holding describes you presence in
province as a lord of this terrain (and I, as poor peasant, prefer pay my
duties to nearest official than wait for delegate from true king) - not
number of swords/pikes/knives ready for your order... To collect taxes you
must know who can pay them, who didn't pay last time and who can pay once
more - sure, you can order your aides to take 50% af anything they find, but
next time ( next season, next month, next week) you find that all "your"
subject are as poor as beggars - or disapperar in woods, hills or foreign
lands.

Duatha

[Dom]

At 16:47 23/08/98 +0200, you wrote:
>I see that some of us have different views on Law holdings... :)
>I agree with Oyvin - part of tax are collected in "nature" - grain, food,
>ale et cetera. Note that most of "non-urban" citizens haven't hard cash...
>

I think that the taxes are collected in produce, but during the taxation
period are converted into hard cash or letters of credit from the Guilds
or other Regents.



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com or mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

[Gary V. Foss]

Dom wrote:

> At 16:47 23/08/98 +0200, you wrote:
> >I see that some of us have different views on Law holdings... :)
> >I agree with Oyvin - part of tax are collected in "nature" - grain, food,
> >ale et cetera. Note that most of "non-urban" citizens haven't hard cash...
> >
> I think that the taxes are collected in produce, but during the taxation
> period are converted into hard cash or letters of credit from the Guilds
> or other Regents.

To me, this is one of the big differences between RL and gaming. I have yet to
see a campaign world where even the peasantry didn't have actual currency to
spend or use to pay their taxes. While it may be more realistic for them to
pay their taxes in produce, it suits our 20th century sensibilities for them
all to have a little cash to pay for things with. Otherwise, our characters
are pretty much the same as the brutal rulers of the medieval period, and
whipping the peasantry just isn't something that we want to have to deal with
in what is supposed to be a heroic game. So, for me, peasants pay taxes to the
province ruler rather than the law holder, because that's the idealistic,
fictionalized morality that the game is based on. Sure the sheriff can go skim
off the top, but he can't just take ALL the tax money without it being noticed
by everyone above him and everyone below him.

My second point regarding who get taxes is based upon the form those taxes take
in the game. The arrive at the capital in gold bars. Big, heavy, chunky gold
bars. This seems to imply that even if they were paid and collected in smaller
coin or even in food, there must be a fairly substantial process going on
between peasant and ruler for taxes to be put into that form. The bureaucratic
infrastructure has to convert the pennies into gold bars. That means they
either melt them down or have some sort of bank-like arrangement where they are
exchanged. If taxes are paid in food, then there has to be some sort of
market-like place where everything is sold or exchanged for the GB that the
lord get. In either case, a smelter, bank or market all seem to be the kinds
of things outside the sphere of a Law holding.