Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 71
  1. #61
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,475
    Downloads
    34
    Uploads
    8
    Why use letters for Maneuverability Class (MC)? This just requires referring to yet another table to decipher the code. Is there no way to give the MC a number that tells us exactly what the score means. For example, MC 2 might mean the ship must sail 2 spaces forward before turning 45 degrees, MC 1/2 = move 1, turn 2 (90 degrees).

    Dunno, just some outside perspective on that.

    Osprey

  2. #62
    Member lord_arioch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    46
    Downloads
    9
    Uploads
    0
    I agree Osprey. This was an old chart I had done. I used a letter for the maneuverability because that's how it was done originally. But you are correct. A simpler method is needed.
    If we were to use a square chart and use eight points of movement then the letter MC can be changed to points moved.
    Eg. MC: E would be one point, D=2 points, C=3 points,B=4 points, A=5 points.

    therefore a coaster in one turn of movement can turn 225 degrees or from going North to South-west in one turn of movement.

    thanks for the tip RaspK.
    To each, his own.

  3. #63
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Moschato, Athens, Greece
    Posts
    1,128
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0
    Osprey, it's simple: D&D flight works that way as well. I believe your idea is very helpful since, unlike with flight, there is no 3rd dimention when it comes to seafare (unless you count sinking :P ).

    Anytime, Arioch.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Thomas_Percy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    139
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Part 1 of my observations about Chapter 6 Armies & Warfare.

    1. Move

    Speed of unit depends of speed of train (wagon with supply), so every unit with an exception of light cavalry/scouts has a base Spd 20 ft -> 2mph -> 16 miles per day.
    It is far more than 1 province per week.

    2. Attack modifiers against certain types of units (eg. archers vs cavalry).

    It should depend of unit's feats combo.
    For example Hold the Line feat is effective for pikemen and infantry.

    3. Units critical hits.

    Why this is changed due to the D&D PHB weapon critical hits rules?

    4. Morale

    Morale save roll with every hit. Not too much rolls?

    5. Garrisoned units

    An army unit is considered to be in garrison if it rests in its home province for one month. Naval units can garrison in any friendly shipyard.
    It means a player must take a book keeping for every unit.

    A morale save is a d20 + the unit's morale rating. A scion commander may modify the morale saves of their units by spending regency to provide a one-for-one bonus.
    I think there are NON-regent great commander which can be allowed do do the same without spending RP.

    6. Unit armor and missile attacks

    A unit whose modified missile rating (due to armor) is below +0 loses the ability to make a ranged attack.
    It's an ahistorical and inconsistent with D&D rules (eg. Tordek with full plate and a bow)

    7. Goblins

    Although goblin units are usually undisciplined and poorly equipped, they compensate with sheer numbers and bloodlust.
    Where is a game mechanics for such an idea?

    8. Number of soldiers in the unit

    If we assume that the soldiers in the unit are a 1st-level warriors (CR 1), then we can determine that it requires 128 soldiers CR 1 soldiers to create a standard EL 15 unit.
    Maybe I'm wrong, but Warriors as other NPC classes has a CR 1/2 (I'm not sure).
    Anyway it is weird that horses are more formidable enemies than knight. It's one of many weird things emerging of 1st level NPC classes.

    9. Cog

    Is a cog a 2-masted ship?

    10. Muster troops

    A regent must have access to military resources to muster a unit and can muster an army unit in a province only if one of the following mustering conditions are met: (1) the regent controls a law holding in the province equal to or greater than the GB cost of mustering the unit; or, (2) the regent controls a temple or guild holdings in the province equal to or greater than 2 + the muster cost of the unit + levels of opposing law holdings in the province.
    Why an owner of a guild can muster a troops? Why a cleric in chief of the province can?

    11. Military Intelligence

    There is no a word about magic such as Scrying spell, about familiars, animal companions, homunculi, flying scouts (griffonriders).

  5. #65
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    california
    Posts
    317
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Since we're done with chapter 1, I though I would bring this up again. Revised rules for ship stats and naval combat. I think these are better than what is in the BRCS, not that these can't be improved upon.

    -strategic movement=non-combat movement; sails will be significantly faster that oar based ships
    -tactical movement=combat movement; same as tactical for sails, but oars will be faster than their strategic movement
    -defence=DC of check versus melee, normal ranged attacks or grappling
    -melee=ramming attack; Oars will have an advantage in this, but larger ships will have an advantage to. If a ship is not destroyed from the ramming damage (only 1 hit) the two ships will be locked and only a ship with oars will be able to seperate during a battle. Locked ships can be boarded by each other. A ramming attack can also be used to destroy the oars of a ship, slowing or immobilizing it, called shearing.
    -ranged=ranged damage from war machines. A normal hit will deal a hit, fire damage will not immediately inflict a hit, the defenders will have one round to put the fire out using a morale check. If the fire is not put out a hit is inflicted and the next rounds morale check to put the fire out will be higher
    -grappling=attack to grapple two ships together to allow soldiers to board.
    -manuverbility= Essentially the amount a ship must move forward to turn 45 degrees. Represented by numbers, with 0 being able to spend a move to turn 45 degrees without going forward.
    -Cargo space=number of GB's worth of goods for a trade route the ship can carry
    -Bunks=Number of units that can be carried. Cavalry takes up 3 spaces.

    -Ships move on a square board, but can move diagonally.
    -A ship that has been sheared can not move for a combat round. In following combat rounds it moves at half speed and manueverbility is reduced by one grade.
    -Combat units on board can also attack. Archers can do one of three attacks. They can attack the crew which count as a unit of irregulars or light infantry depending on type of ship. They can attack a unit on board the ship. They can attack the ship with fire arrows as the rules above.
    -Once two ships are locked or grappled units can board the enemies ships to try to take it.
    -If ships are next to each other whether graplled, locked or just sailing closely their is a chance for a fire on board one to light the other ship.
    -For the purposes of ranged attacks, if either or both of the ships is not moving, the ranged attack will recieve a bonus. Archers shooting from from higher groung (larger ships) recieve a bonus to attack.
    -The direction and strength of the wind or else a storm should play a major role.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,475
    Downloads
    34
    Uploads
    8
    Big question yet unresolved re. ships: is a ship one ship or a unit of ships (several ships)?

    If a single ship, could any ship really carry more than one unit? A galleon or other heavy ship might carry a full company, smaller ships could hold only a fraction of a company - if a galleon has bunks 3 but really holds only one company, a caravel would carry only 1/3 of a company.

    If ships and units are to be at all compatible, it will probably be necessary to make each "ship" a unit or squadron - 3 ships per unit/squadron is about right IMO.

    The other option is gving heavy ships 1 company capacity, and smaller ships less, which gets messy and hard to handle. I prefer squadrons myself, though resulting cargo capacity of 3 ships vs. one should be carefully considered.

  7. #67
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    california
    Posts
    317
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Originally posted by Osprey@Feb 21 2005, 02:25 PM
    Big question yet unresolved re. ships: is a ship one ship or a unit of ships (several ships)?

    If a single ship, could any ship really carry more than one unit? A galleon or other heavy ship might carry a full company, smaller ships could hold only a fraction of a company - if a galleon has bunks 3 but really holds only one company, a caravel would carry only 1/3 of a company.

    If ships and units are to be at all compatible, it will probably be necessary to make each "ship" a unit or squadron - 3 ships per unit/squadron is about right IMO.

    The other option is gving heavy ships 1 company capacity, and smaller ships less, which gets messy and hard to handle. I prefer squadrons myself, though resulting cargo capacity of 3 ships vs. one should be carefully considered.
    I don't know much about ships. but I'm reading a historical novel right now, set in napolieonic war. The 3rd largest class of English galleons can carry at least 650 sailors and 65 marines.

    A question I have, is it realistic for ships to carry horses at all. First of all there is the question of space. a soldier can be given 5 1/2 feet by 2 1/2 feet by 1 1/2 feet (vertical) to sleep in. Then their is room for his equipment. Horses can't be stacked vertically, and will probably need at least 8 feet by 4 feet. More importantly I thought there was a great risk of horses panicking and/or breaking their legs. I know a horse with its owner calming it can cross a river on a barge, but packing the horses into the hold seems entirely different.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,475
    Downloads
    34
    Uploads
    8
    I don't know much about ships. but I'm reading a historical novel right now, set in napolieonic war. The 3rd largest class of English galleons can carry at least 650 sailors and 65 marines.
    Napoleanic-era ships were much bigger than medieval ones. Those galleons you're referring to had so many sailors to crew all the cannons (c. 2/3 of total crew might be for cannons) and sail the ship (1/3).

    For historical comparisons, look at ships up to Renaissance era (up to 1600 or so), minus their compliment of cannons.

    Non-cannon galleons with oars would need a huge number of rowers. Sailing galleons might have a great deal more bunk/cargo capacity. IMO galleons shouldn't have oars. The space where cannons would have been ona a Ren. galleon can be replaced by arrow loops beneath the main deck, and battlements around the main deck - this would provide two banks of archers on either side, plus a few ballistae (one on the forecastle, one on the aftcastle).

    Historic caravels and cogs were a LOT smaller than galleons as I recall. I doubt they'd fit more than 50 fighting men plus the crew. More troops could possibly be shipped in the cargo hold, though those would be poor conditions for any time period.


    A question I have, is it realistic for ships to carry horses at all. First of all there is the question of space. a soldier can be given 5 1/2 feet by 2 1/2 feet by 1 1/2 feet (vertical) to sleep in. Then their is room for his equipment. Horses can't be stacked vertically, and will probably need at least 8 feet by 4 feet. More importantly I thought there was a great risk of horses panicking and/or breaking their legs. I know a horse with its owner calming it can cross a river on a barge, but packing the horses into the hold seems entirely different.
    You'd be surprised at how often horses were carried in ships. Ancient and medieval eras have many accounts of cavalry being hauled by ship. I think there's little doubt that they would do poorly in long voyages or bad weather, but a ship with a properly-designed cargo hold could carry a decent number of horses.

    Rather than have horses take up bunk space, they should take cargo space - I was thinking 2 GB worth per cavalry company. This also assumes cavalry companies are only 50 or so horsemen.

    For that matter, I use a rule IMC that carrying any shipboard troops on a long voyage (more than one day) requires 1 GB worth of supplies per company per month. So 1 cavalry unit would need 3 GB worth of cargo space for a long voyage.

    A harsher rule might force a cavalry company to make a Morale check per full day of sea travel (DC 10 + 1 per day traveled). A failed check could inflict 1 hit of subdual damage.

    Or just have cavalry units add +4 (or more) to the DC's to resist nonlethal damage from bad weather.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Thomas_Percy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    139
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Yes, horses can be transport by ships.
    It was a normal way of transport durning crusades for example.
    There is a medieval joke about a knight who lost his horse durning a storm on La Manche.

    About ships from sourcebook "Sailing Ships" by Stefan Gulas.

    A Cog - 80-200 tons, even 300 tons. A caravel the same.
    So if a horse weights 0,5 ton, 0,7 with knight, barding and armor, there is a place for a unit of knight on the board.

    Original Brt rules about ship are good, maybe the roundship is a non precise due to historical sources.

    Info in the DMG is not a-historical, too.

    This is from a Gulas book - a Golden Hind, light galleon of Francis Drake (sorry for Polish language legend ):


    This is from our future book:


  10. #70
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Victoria BC, Canada
    Posts
    368
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    One thing that has always bugged me is that "Coasters", which would be roughly equivalent to a Pinnace or a Sloop, are dead the moment they enter the tactical grid with no chance to run away from a Caravel or a Galleon, due to their slower tactical speed. In truth, a Sloop or Pinnace would be able to outpace a Galleon or Caravel, primarily due to their more streamlined hull and their ability to sail closer to the wind.
    This inaccuracy in the game throws the ages-old tactical doctrine of having the light ships on picket duty to detect enemy fleets into chaos and makwes the class of shp virtually useless.
    I am working with someone locally to redevelop the naval aspect of the game, should the BRCS crew allow me to continue.
    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."

    - R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.