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  1. #1
    LordSchmit@aol.co
    Guest

    Setting Return to the Tomb of H

    In a message dated 8/11/98 10:47:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
    manwe@attila.apana.org.au writes:

    > I've been thinking about setting the new adventure 'Return to the Tomb of
    > Horrors' in Cerilia somewhere. Has anyone else done so? any suggestions as
    > to where? Am I crazy for thinking so?

    I was just reading an article in an old Dragon magazine about setting the 'Rod
    of Seven Parts' adventure (also part of the "Tomes" Series that RttToH is in)
    in Cerilia (as well as in Oerth and Toril). It's not unreasonable to put the
    Tomb somewhere in Cerilia. It would take some adjustments, I'd imagine.

  2. #2

    Setting Return to the Tomb of H

    I don't think your crazy...or at least I hope not, because I plan on using
    it myself. I was thinking of sticking it in the Giantdowns, or possibly to
    the far north east...lost in some savage Vos land.

    Sepsis, rtifft@usa.net

    "War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
    the province of life or death;
    the road to survival or ruin.
    It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
    -Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-

    BR Netbook - http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6396/birth.html

    - -----Original Message-----
    From: Jason Mulligan
    Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 1:05 AM


    >

    >I've been thinking about setting the new adventure 'Return to the Tomb of
    >Horrors' in Cerilia somewhere. Has anyone else done so? any suggestions as
    >to where? Am I crazy for thinking so?
    >

  3. #3
    Pieter A de Jong
    Guest

    Setting Return to the Tomb of H

    At 02:37 PM 8/12/98 +1000, you wrote:
    >I've been thinking about setting the new adventure 'Return to the Tomb of
    >Horrors' in Cerilia somewhere. Has anyone else done so? any suggestions as
    >to where? Am I crazy for thinking so?
    >
    It might be a little difficult unless you follow the standard TSR planar
    geography with a negative material plane, etc. Having followed several
    threads on this, it seems clear to me that this is not the case for most
    folks on this list, as cerilian undead come from the shadow world, which is
    not nearly as hostile as the negative material plane. However, it could be
    done, all you need is a willingness to create your own demiplanes with
    strange properties (not very difficult, as nobody in your party is going to
    want to come back and explore the place more thoroughly after escaping).
    More difficult is the Cerilian setting for such an adventure. With Acerak's
    length of history, it is neccesary to set it in Aduria somewhere. This also
    might allow you to solve the problem of the college full of Necromancers
    (difficult in Cerilia what with either elven or divine blood required for
    true wizardry, and there are *very* few elven necromancers). Finally, you
    would have to be very careful about PC power levels. That module is
    designed for a group of high-level PC's in a more magic-item rich world than
    Cerilia is usually played as. Finally, if you want to keep your Cerilia low
    magic, you will have to tone down both the encounters and the treasure in
    the module.

    Pieter A de Jong
    Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
    University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

  4. #4
    prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co
    Guest

    Setting Return to the Tomb of H

    - ----- Begin Included Message -----
    At 02:37 PM 8/12/98 +1000, you wrote:
    >I've been thinking about setting the new adventure 'Return to the Tomb of
    >Horrors' in Cerilia somewhere. Has anyone else done so? any suggestions as
    >to where? Am I crazy for thinking so?
    >
    It might be a little difficult unless you follow the standard TSR planar
    geography with a negative material plane, etc. Having followed several
    threads on this, it seems clear to me that this is not the case for most
    folks on this list, as cerilian undead come from the shadow world, which is
    not nearly as hostile as the negative material plane. However, it could be
    done, all you need is a willingness to create your own demiplanes with
    strange properties (not very difficult, as nobody in your party is going to
    want to come back and explore the place more thoroughly after escaping).
    More difficult is the Cerilian setting for such an adventure. With Acerak's
    length of history, it is neccesary to set it in Aduria somewhere. This also
    might allow you to solve the problem of the college full of Necromancers
    (difficult in Cerilia what with either elven or divine blood required for
    true wizardry, and there are *very* few elven necromancers). Finally, you
    would have to be very careful about PC power levels. That module is
    designed for a group of high-level PC's in a more magic-item rich world than
    Cerilia is usually played as. Finally, if you want to keep your Cerilia low
    magic, you will have to tone down both the encounters and the treasure in
    the module.

    Pieter A de Jong
    Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
    University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada


    - ----- End Included Message -----

    Couldn't have said it better myself. Amazing. The Sask engineer and the
    Minnesota engineer agree for once. :)

    Actually we only disagree about the number of true wizards and what percentage
    of said population elves/half-elves are. Adapting most D&D modules to BR is
    fraught with peril. Most modules were written for a genric world and require
    considerable tinkering to fit into Cerilia. Of course, some of the BR specific
    adventures aren't much better- Sword of Roele being a prime example. For good
    BR adventure examples check out Ed Stark's work in King of the Giantdowns or
    Legends of the Hero Kings.

    You are, of course, free to run any style campaign you wish. However, using
    most D&D modules "as is" means you'll be running BirthRealms not Birthright.

  5. #5
    Pieter A de Jong
    Guest

    Setting Return to the Tomb of H

    At 10:44 AM 8/12/98 -0500, Randax wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >Couldn't have said it better myself. Amazing. The Sask engineer and the
    >Minnesota engineer agree for once. :)

    Don't start congratulating me just yet, I said it was difficult, not
    impossible. I might try it myself one of these days, however as you (Randax)
    remark below, I run a campaign with more magic in it than most.
    >
    >Actually we only disagree about the number of true wizards and what percentage
    >of said population elves/half-elves are. Adapting most D&D modules to BR is
    >fraught with peril. Most modules were written for a genric world and require
    >considerable tinkering to fit into Cerilia. Of course, some of the BR specific
    >adventures aren't much better- Sword of Roele being a prime example. For good
    >BR adventure examples check out Ed Stark's work in King of the Giantdowns or
    >Legends of the Hero Kings.
    >

    >
    As I remarked in my initial post, put the tomb itself in Aduria, as
    a left over from one of the ruined empires that Azrai took over and hurled
    at Cerilia. This might make Acerak one of the lost who semi-survived
    Deismaar. He was slain there, but returned as a lich in his tomb. For
    several hundred years he conquered and ruled a small empire, which he then
    pillaged to build the actual tomb and his outer planar fortress. We now
    have explanations for Acerak(and his tomb)'s existence. To run the original
    tomb of horrors, all that has to happen is that someone finds a historical
    record of Acerak's empire (he didn't try to hide his existence that hard, as
    he is actually looking for visitors). The original module might require
    some editing with regards to the magical treasure inside, it does depend on
    your campaign.
    Now then, the returns requires a) somebody(ies) has already pillaged
    most of the tomb, and b) a college of necromancers researching aceraks
    methods, and c) an expendable party of high level adventurers. I will leave
    a) and c) up to individual DM's, and an example of a) is provided in the
    module itself. The college of necromancers is a bit much in a Birthright
    setting. However, if you transform the college from a teaching institution
    (a larger version of the CoS, devoted solely to necromancy), to a research
    institute with one or two high level necromancers (all they run into in the
    normal module, unless they directly attack the whole city). This means that
    apprentices can be transformed into magicians and lesser free-willed undead
    being used as (equivalents to) laboratory technicians. None of the other
    monsters in the college need replacing, as all of them are quite reasonable
    creations of such high-level necromancers (even in Birthright Randax, so
    shush). A couple of encounters in the college itself may need minor editing,
    especially with regards to dialogue, ie. don't have NPC's saying "Welcome to
    the college of necromancy, ...
    PC's, after solving certain puzzles are then transported to a city
    trapped in a demiplane bordering the Negative material plane. This is where
    c) above comes in, because the rest of this adventure is a brutally
    dangerous dungeon crawl, with several nasty puzzles to be solved.
    Encounters will require editing if PC's are not equipped with powerful
    magical weapons (+3 and better for fighters, many things in this module are
    extremely tough and resistant to normal weaponry). A party of at least 8
    characters with at a minimum 2 clerics is recommended. So are multiple high
    level mages. And they had better be experienced and skillful players. I am
    not joking about all of this. Read the module yourself and find out.
    Finally, the consequences of completing this module are not very
    major. Unless the PC's fail of course, but you don't have to worry about
    it, because your campaign is pretty much over as all the PC's are likely
    very dead. It is possible that the amount of available magical treasure in
    this module will unbalance your campaign, so that may need editing.
    An there you go, Return to the Tomb of Horrors adapted to
    Birthright. So there Randax.

    Pieter A de Jong
    Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
    University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

  6. #6
    prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co
    Guest

    Setting Return to the Tomb of H

    - ----- Begin Included Message -----

    Now then, the returns requires a) somebody(ies) has already pillaged
    most of the tomb, and b) a college of necromancers researching aceraks
    methods, and c) an expendable party of high level adventurers. I will leave
    a) and c) up to individual DM's, and an example of a) is provided in the
    module itself. The college of necromancers is a bit much in a Birthright
    setting. However, if you transform the college from a teaching institution
    (a larger version of the CoS, devoted solely to necromancy), to a research
    institute with one or two high level necromancers (all they run into in the
    normal module, unless they directly attack the whole city). This means that
    apprentices can be transformed into magicians and lesser free-willed undead
    being used as (equivalents to) laboratory technicians. None of the other
    monsters in the college need replacing, as all of them are quite reasonable
    creations of such high-level necromancers (even in Birthright Randax, so
    shush). A couple of encounters in the college itself may need minor editing,
    especially with regards to dialogue, ie. don't have NPC's saying "Welcome to
    the college of necromancy, ...
    PC's, after solving certain puzzles are then transported to a city
    trapped in a demiplane bordering the Negative material plane. This is where
    c) above comes in, because the rest of this adventure is a brutally
    dangerous dungeon crawl, with several nasty puzzles to be solved.
    Encounters will require editing if PC's are not equipped with powerful
    magical weapons (+3 and better for fighters, many things in this module are
    extremely tough and resistant to normal weaponry). A party of at least 8
    characters with at a minimum 2 clerics is recommended. So are multiple high
    level mages. And they had better be experienced and skillful players. I am
    not joking about all of this. Read the module yourself and find out.
    Finally, the consequences of completing this module are not very
    major. Unless the PC's fail of course, but you don't have to worry about
    it, because your campaign is pretty much over as all the PC's are likely
    very dead. It is possible that the amount of available magical treasure in
    this module will unbalance your campaign, so that may need editing.
    An there you go, Return to the Tomb of Horrors adapted to
    Birthright. So there Randax.
    ************************************************** ***********************

    - ----- End Included Message -----

    I didn't say it was impossible- just that it would take some work. I think I
    used the term "major tinkering". Most of the above is very good. I'd put the
    "Gygax Deathtrap Dungeon" (which is basically what ToH and RttToH essentially
    are) in the Shadow World. In the SW you can let your imagination run amok,
    changing whole encounters to fit BR and giving excuses for the most fantastically
    unbelievable traps.

    Multiple high level mages and necromancers are much harder to come by in Birhtright.
    [Here we go again!] In typical BR games, PCs of levels 8+ are quite rare. Even
    rarer are the powerful magic items needed to survive this killer dungeon. In the days
    when town was just a place you rested and healed up before the next dungeon bash, Gygax
    wrote ToH to give himself a thrill bashing level 12+ characters.

    If my players worked that hard in BR to reach level 10-12, I'd be very loath to throw
    them into a meatgrinder like this. By the time a BR PC reaches 9th level, they should
    be one of the richest, most developed characters to be found in the D&D "universe".
    I wouldn't want to throw that away unless my players were looking to suicide by DM.

    Randax

  7. #7
    James Ray
    Guest

    Setting Return to the Tomb of H

    - ----------
    > From: Randall W. Porter@6550
    > Most of the above is very good. I'd put the "Gygax Deathtrap Dungeon"
    (which is basically what ToH and RttToH essentially are) in the Shadow
    World. In the SW you can let your imagination run amok,
    > changing whole encounters to fit BR and giving excuses for the most
    fantastically unbelievable traps.>

    I agree - Mr Gygax elaborates upon that theme in "Return to the Tomb of
    Horrors" LOL.The ONLY thing worse than a "Monty haul" adventure...an
    unapologetic "DeathTrap" Dungeon LOL Unless, of course, you are the DM...
    :)

  8. #8
    Jason Mulligan
    Guest

    Setting Return to the Tomb of H

    > Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:29:05 -0600
    > From: Pieter A de Jong
    > Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Setting Return to the Tomb of Horrors in Cerilia

    > BirthHawk dammit!>

    Actually. I would love to run a Birthhawk game, but I think it may take
    more work than I am able to do.


    - --
    Jason Mulligan

    "The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the
    devil's own satanic herd!"
    - Edmund Blackadder

  9. #9
    Pieter A de Jong
    Guest

    Setting Return to the Tomb of H

    At 07:21 PM 8/13/98 +1000, Jason Mulligan wrote:
    >> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:29:05 -0600
    >> From: Pieter A de Jong
    >> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Setting Return to the Tomb of Horrors in Cerilia
    >
    >> > BirthHawk dammit!>
    >
    >Actually. I would love to run a Birthhawk game, but I think it may take
    >more work than I am able to do.
    >
    >
    Yeah, doing all the conversion would be an utter bitch. I think you might
    be better off redoing the politics (and power levels) of Cerilia in a big
    way. Like say the Raven conquering all of Vosgaard, while large numbers of
    the smaller realms reunite to protect themselves.

    Pieter A de Jong
    Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
    University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

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