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  1. #1
    Bearcat
    Guest

    Source depletion

    >One other point. Mages don't actually have to live in the wilderness to cast
    >true magic. Their connection with the land is enough to cast spells no matter
    >where they are. It's only if they want to cast realm spells that they have to
    >run out an find a natural source of mebhaighl to tap.
    >
    >Gary

    Not only that, they can also bring the mebhaighl to civilized lands
    using ley lines.

  2. #2
    Oyvind Gronnesby
    Guest

    Source depletion

    I must say I generally disagree with the notion that magic gets depleted
    when civilization expands (that is the level of the province goes up, and
    the source level goes down). If we are talking some kind of druidical magic,
    I could disagree, but the magic that a wizard practices (as I see it) is a
    more arcane form that is based on theory and research.

    I can see the point of the elvish magic being depleted as thet are beings
    that heavily rely on the forest, but humans? If this was the case, then all
    the mages would go and live deep in the wilderness and seek out the big
    sources (although these are usually heavily guarded by elves), and certeinly
    not stay in a big metropolis like the Imperial City (the College of Sorcery).

    Therefore I would not reduce the level of the source for human mages (and
    maybe half-elven mages (depends on with whom they have studied)) in
    civilized areas.

    What do ya think of it?


    Oyvind Gronnesby

  3. #3
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Source depletion

    Oyvind Gronnesby wrote:

    > I must say I generally disagree with the notion that magic gets depleted
    > when civilization expands (that is the level of the province goes up, and
    > the source level goes down). If we are talking some kind of druidical magic,
    > I could disagree, but the magic that a wizard practices (as I see it) is a
    > more arcane form that is based on theory and research.
    >
    > I can see the point of the elvish magic being depleted as thet are beings
    > that heavily rely on the forest, but humans? If this was the case, then all
    > the mages would go and live deep in the wilderness and seek out the big
    > sources (although these are usually heavily guarded by elves), and certeinly
    > not stay in a big metropolis like the Imperial City (the College of Sorcery).
    >
    > Therefore I would not reduce the level of the source for human mages (and
    > maybe half-elven mages (depends on with whom they have studied)) in
    > civilized areas.
    >
    > What do ya think of it?
    >
    > Oyvind Gronnesby

    Well, I see your point, but I think there are some other issues involved in the
    BR setting that further justify the depletion of sources by civilization and the
    human mages' links to it.

    Deismaar: True magic in BR originated because of the godly fireworks show 1,500
    years ago. During this event it isn't only the people around the battlefield who
    absorbed some of the magical essense, but the earth itself. Mabheighl is infused
    in the ground, and it is the bloodline connection with this magical essence that
    allows blooded mages to cast true magic. The biggest influence upon sources is
    the way human civilization has a tendancy to dig up the ground. Plowing, mines,
    quarries, roads, all have big affects upon the earth. Even when a human puts up
    a fence, he digs holes in the ground, chops down a bunch of trees and sticks them
    in the holes. An elf would grow trees or brambles in a specific, nurtured manner
    to block off the area (or cast spells that have similar, earth-friendly
    effects.) Even in our mundane world, many people feel there is something
    mystical about natural, uncivilized places. BR is trying to tap into that.

    Elves: The only people able to use "true" magic before Deismaar were the elves.
    They could do it because they were in touch with the land in a way allowed to
    humans only after the battle. This is further evidence that the land is the
    source of magical power.

    The gods: Notice how many of the gods have some sort of elemental influence.
    That is, the god of war still has influence over lightening, the goddess of
    thieves can control cats. Avani and Neserie have obvious connections, Rournil
    protects sources, etc. The point is that there are "natural" influences that the
    gods have. While this might not have as much to do with mages as you might
    think, it goes to the fundemental workings of the setting. That is, because
    magic came from the gods and the gods have natural influences, nature itself has
    magical power. (OK, it's probably my worst argument, but I've already written it
    down, and I'm going with it....)

    One other point. Mages don't actually have to live in the wilderness to cast
    true magic. Their connection with the land is enough to cast spells no matter
    where they are. It's only if they want to cast realm spells that they have to
    run out an find a natural source of mebhaighl to tap.

    Gary

  4. #4
    Daniel McSorley
    Guest

    Source depletion

    From: Oyvind Gronnesby


    >I must say I generally disagree with the notion that magic gets depleted
    >when civilization expands (that is the level of the province goes up, and
    >the source level goes down). If we are talking some kind of druidical
    magic,
    >I could disagree, but the magic that a wizard practices (as I see it) is a
    >more arcane form that is based on theory and research.
    >
    >I can see the point of the elvish magic being depleted as thet are beings
    >that heavily rely on the forest, but humans? If this was the case, then all
    >the mages would go and live deep in the wilderness and seek out the big
    >sources (although these are usually heavily guarded by elves), and
    certeinly
    >not stay in a big metropolis like the Imperial City (the College of
    Sorcery).
    >
    >Therefore I would not reduce the level of the source for human mages (and
    >maybe half-elven mages (depends on with whom they have studied)) in
    >civilized areas.
    >
    This would throw huge kinks in the system, as right now there is kind of
    a balance between sources and the other holdings.
    Also, true magic _is_ elven magic. Before Deismaar, the humans had only
    magicians, who have no connection to the land. The elves cast true magic.
    After gaining bloodlines, humans could, too, and they learned it in the
    elven style. There is a specific reference, I don't have time to find it,
    where the Lost are said to have been taught magic by Azrai before Deismaar,
    but it was not Elven magic, i.e. true magic. So, the wizards in this
    setting _do_ rely on wilderness, just as the elves do.

    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu

  5. #5
    Tim Nutting
    Guest

    Source depletion

    Interesting points all around. However, we need to keep the distinction
    between True Magic and Realm Magic clear. True magic has existed since the
    dawn of Aebyrnis. This distinction is only important in matters relating
    to this plane of the Prime Material, how magic works in other Primes and on
    the Inner and Outer Planes is completely irrelevant.

    Lesser magic is derived from the powers of the mind and schooling in arcane
    arts (this explains why there are no psionicists in Cerilia, Lesser magic
    is a bastard child of psionics and wizardry)

    True Magic is defined as being drastically more powerful than all of the
    lesser magic's (heck - the difference between 2nd- and 3rd-level wizard
    spells is somewhat large), and this magic requires that the use be born
    with some magic in him already. He must be either blooded or somehow of
    elvish descent. True magic was also unaffected by Deismaar, save that now
    humans with the divine spark could use it.

    What Deismar released was enough magical energy into the mortal population
    that they could tap a heretofore unknown source of energy, the energy of
    the land itself, the mebhaighl. I could quote everything out of "magic and
    realm spells" in the rulebook, but that would do no good. In short, as
    Gary pointed out, when humans rape the land is lessened, thus there is less
    of this energy for the blooded wizards to tap.

    It's funny, really, that this is the only magic for wizards (outside of
    Athas) that has a clearly defined source of power...

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