ships

[The Olesens]

>
>
>
> So, when you put out the call to muster certain kinds of warriors to form
> units, the only time and effort involved is in waiting for them to pack their
> stuff, get thier lives in order, show up and sign in for pay.
>

I'd say you also have to give them a quick lesson is working together and on new
tactics but that's about it

[Sythryc@aol.co]

well then, i see there should be an IQ equivalent listed for the game rather
than an age. times change but the poison remains the same. ask the navy how
long it takes to build a battleship and ask the army how long it takes to make
their flak vests.

[Solmyr]

In my PBEM, I rule that each ship is built at 1d6 GB per ROUND (well,
actually a player convinced me to adopt this rule just before he was going
to build some ships :) Each port province can build a maximum number of
ships at a time equal to its level. The reason being, ships don't take years
to construct, as long as you have the money to spare.

******************
Aleksei Andrievski
aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star
Visit the Archmage's Tower at
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html

[Jim Cooper]

The Olesens wrote:
> Maybe you can dig up twenty suits of plate mail that quick but building a ship can take monthes or years.<

I think its safe to assume that these purchased ships have just been
built (or nearly so), if only to make things much more simpler. Of
course, DMs are well within their rights to dissallow players from
buying ships (or armies for that matter). IMC, regents can only muster
a number of armies up to the level of their province(s) *per year*,
including ships, and only during the winter months (unless they are
mercs) - or summer months if I'm feeling nice.

Cheers,
Darren

[Jonathan Ingram]

At 01:37 PM 7/28/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I think its safe to assume that these purchased ships have just been
>built (or nearly so), if only to make things much more simpler. Of
>course, DMs are well within their rights to dissallow players from
>buying ships (or armies for that matter). IMC, regents can only muster
>a number of armies up to the level of their province(s) *per year*,
>including ships, and only during the winter months (unless they are
>mercs) - or summer months if I'm feeling nice.
That brings up an interesting issue: Can a player build a shipyard and
build ships for himself at a reduced cost, or make a profit by selling
ships to others who want to build them? Perhaps building ships is more
expensive if you don't have a shipyard. Also, shipyards have to have some
limit on the number of ships that can be built at one time.

I propose the following modification to the build action:

* Build Shipyard *
A player may spend 20GB to create a shipyard in a level 4 or higher coastal
or river province. Constuction of the shipyard proceeds at the normal rate
for construction (d6GB per turn).

Once the shipyard has been created, the owner of the shipyard can build
ships for 80% of the specified purchase cost. These ships can then be sold
to other regents at some negotiated price (possibly the purchase price).
Thus, a galleon could be built for 12GB instead of purchased for 15GB.

The shipyard is capable of constructing one tower ship, two galleons or
roundships, two caravels, or four smaller ships, or some combination
thereof at any given point in time.

That brings up two more modified domain actions:

* Build Ship *

A regent without a shipyard who wishes to build a ship instead of purchase
it can save 10% of the cost (rounded down) of purchasing the ship by
building it. This may only be done in a level 3 or higher province; only
one ship may be constructed at a time, and the regent may not construct
galleons, roundships, or tower ships.

* Muster Ships *

A regent wishing to purchase ships rather than construct them must by ships
from someone with a ship for sale; typically this is a shipyard. Ships are
usually available at list price if the customer is willing to wait for them
to be built; if the regent wishes to purchase the ships immediately, he/she
must pay an additional 25% (rounded up) of the ship's base cost (thus, a
galleon would cost 19GB instead of 15GB if purchased immediately).

Due to the constraint on shipyards production, it's unlikely that a regent
will find more than one tower ship, two galleons, four caravels, or eight
smaller vessels for sale at any given point in time that can be purchased
outright.

The regent also has the option of purchasing ships from a regent with
surplus ships. The price for these ships must be negotiated; the actual
number of ships available is likely to be much less than the number of
ships available for shipyards: one galleon, two caravels, or four smaller
ships.

Comments anyone?

Jonathan Ingram
jingram@pacifier.com

[Clayton F. Hinton]

Not only that, each suit of plate mail must be
>custom fitted to the wearer. This means that the soldiers must be present at
>least some of the time and that the regent can't "order-out" for plate mail.
> Thus, even though it is cheaper to muster a unit of elite infantry
>it is a lot more work that building a ship. It also takes about the same
>amount of time.
>
You are assuming the Lord is outfitting each and every troop with brand new
equipment. I assume this is not true, for if it was the cost to raise new
troops would be much, much, MUCH greater (as you've basically pointed out).
I think most troops of the time had their own armor and weapons, and only
some (10% or so) needed new armor/weapons. This is the only way the
relatively low cost of raising troops makes sense in BR.

- -Clay Hinton
chinton@mail.utexas.edu

[Jim Cooper]

Jonathan Ingram wrote:
The price for these ships must be
negotiated; the actual number of ships available is likely to be much
less than the number of ships available for shipyards: one galleon, two
caravels, or four smaller ships.
>
> Comments anyone?

I like this - I like it a lot. This is nearly the same as what I have
worked out (the exception is that I allow players to choose the size of
their shipyard, so that a regent who builds a 30 GB shipyard can build
up to 2 galleons, IMC -- a less than 15 GB shipyard, galleons cannot be
built). But other than that, very nicely put Jonathan. :)

Cheers,
Darren

[Aaron Sanderson]

>
>well then, i see there should be an IQ equivalent listed for the game
rather
>than an age. times change but the poison remains the same. ask the
navy how
>long it takes to build a battleship and ask the army how long it takes
to make
>their flak vests.
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>
Building a ship isn't just the time spent on the ship. You also have to
cut the trees to provide the timber and then season the wood, make/buy
the rope to help water proof it, coat the hull in tar(after you get the
tar), make the sails (need lots of good quality cloth), and wait for the
whole mess to be put together. Very time intesive.
Just a few thoughts,
AmS.

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[Gary V. Foss]

Aaron Sanderson wrote:

> Building a ship isn't just the time spent on the ship. You also have to
> cut the trees to provide the timber and then season the wood, make/buy
> the rope to help water proof it, coat the hull in tar(after you get the
> tar), make the sails (need lots of good quality cloth), and wait for the
> whole mess to be put together. Very time intesive.
> Just a few thoughts,
> AmS.

I suppose you might also have to consider the time of hiring and possibly
training a crew....

Gary

[Aaron Sanderson]

>
>Aaron Sanderson wrote:
>
>> Building a ship isn't just the time spent on the ship. You also have
to
>> cut the trees to provide the timber and then season the wood,
make/buy
>> the rope to help water proof it, coat the hull in tar(after you get
the
>> tar), make the sails (need lots of good quality cloth), and wait for
the
>> whole mess to be put together. Very time intesive.
>> Just a few thoughts,
>> AmS.
>
>I suppose you might also have to consider the time of hiring and
possibly
>training a crew....
>
>Gary
>
Besides the officers and a couple of others the rest of the crew could
just be raw recruits. You don't have to know much to work on a boat as
long as there are people who do have the knowledge. Once you learn a
couple of terms and how to tie 5 or 6 knots you could serve on a ship of
that time. Up to the mid-ninteenth century most sailors probibly didn't
know much at all when they were first 'hired'.
AmS.


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