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07-12-1998, 03:25 PM #1einarh@fagerborg.vgs.nGuest
[BIRTHRIGHT] -Nordic elves? Where did they com
>I think the Nordic mythic system also features Elves, calling them "alfar",
>and Dwarves (svart-alfar), but I'm not an expert, and only know what I
>remember from books I read a LONG time ago :)
Heh.. "Alver" is a direct translation of "Elves".
and I've never heard the term "svart-alver" before...
At least in norway, elves aren't big in mythology..
We have a few kinda-like-small-elves running around near christmas to eat
some kind of rice meal we put outside our doors.
When the morning comes the "nisse" has come and eaten it up =)
I think the actual term of "Alv" has come from JRR Tolkiens books.
Which also introduced dwarves. Even though one can argue about how many
similarities there are between the dwarves and the "tusser"s.
While dwarves are definately in norwegian mythology...
we even have a song which starts like this: (roughly translated)
""Nisser" and dwarves,
builds in the mountains." (It even rhymes in norwegian =)
It seems like JRR Tolkien have picked out most of the other races from
nordic mythology, namely dwarves, trolls, ogres, giants.... ++
But the elves as they are pictured in JRR and BR, does *not* come from
nordic mythology.. (norwegian at least ;)
Well... I'm no expert in nordic mythology myself.
But if it isn't totally accurate, its darn close =)
Siebharrin the Lich
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07-13-1998, 07:14 PM #2James RayGuest
[BIRTHRIGHT] -Nordic elves? Where did they com
Hmmm....dont ask ME, man LOL. I read it a musty old dictionary, a long
time ago, just thought I would mention it. I've got your address here at
the tail of your post, and I'll try to get back to you, if I can find the
book :) Its at my aunts house, but she is an on the road truck driver,
and I have no idea when she'll be home next. By no means are dictionaries
to be taken as authoritative sources, either, mind you :)
I just meant to suggest there might be more sources for Elves than just
Tolkien and the Celts.
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> From: einarh@fagerborg.vgs.no
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] -Nordic elves? Where did they come from?
> Date: Sunday, July 12, 1998 10:25 AM
>
> >I think the Nordic mythic system also features Elves, calling them
"alfar",
> >and Dwarves (svart-alfar), but I'm not an expert, and only know what I
> >remember from books I read a LONG time ago :)
>
> Heh.. "Alver" is a direct translation of "Elves".
> and I've never heard the term "svart-alver" before...
> At least in norway, elves aren't big in mythology..
> We have a few kinda-like-small-elves running around near christmas to eat
> some kind of rice meal we put outside our doors.
> When the morning comes the "nisse" has come and eaten it up =)
>
> I think the actual term of "Alv" has come from JRR Tolkiens books.
> Which also introduced dwarves. Even though one can argue about how many
> similarities there are between the dwarves and the "tusser"s.
>
> While dwarves are definately in norwegian mythology...
> we even have a song which starts like this: (roughly translated)
> ""Nisser" and dwarves,
> builds in the mountains." (It even rhymes in norwegian =)
>
> It seems like JRR Tolkien have picked out most of the other races from
> nordic mythology, namely dwarves, trolls, ogres, giants.... ++
> But the elves as they are pictured in JRR and BR, does *not* come from
> nordic mythology.. (norwegian at least ;)
>
> Well... I'm no expert in nordic mythology myself.
> But if it isn't totally accurate, its darn close =)
>
> Siebharrin the Lich
>
>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line
> 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
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07-14-1998, 01:59 PM #3Sindre BergGuest
[BIRTHRIGHT] -Nordic elves? Where did they com
James Ray wrote:
> Hmmm....dont ask ME, man LOL. I read it a musty old dictionary, a
> long
> time ago, just thought I would mention it. I've got your address here
> at
> the tail of your post, and I'll try to get back to you, if I can find
> the
> book :) Its at my aunts house, but she is an on the road truck
> driver,
> and I have no idea when she'll be home next. By no means are
> dictionaries
> to be taken as authoritative sources, either, mind you :)
> I just meant to suggest there might be more sources for Elves than
> just
> Tolkien and the Celts.
>
> ----------
> > From: einarh@fagerborg.vgs.no
> > To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> > Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] -Nordic elves? Where did they come from?
> > Date: Sunday, July 12, 1998 10:25 AM
> >
> > >I think the Nordic mythic system also features Elves, calling them
> "alfar",
> > >and Dwarves (svart-alfar), but I'm not an expert, and only know
> what I
> > >remember from books I read a LONG time ago :)
> >
> > Heh.. "Alver" is a direct translation of "Elves".
> > and I've never heard the term "svart-alver" before...
> > At least in norway, elves aren't big in mythology..
> > We have a few kinda-like-small-elves running around near christmas
> to eat
> > some kind of rice meal we put outside our doors.
> > When the morning comes the "nisse" has come and eaten it up =)
> >
> > I think the actual term of "Alv" has come from JRR Tolkiens books.
> > Which also introduced dwarves. Even though one can argue about how
> many
> > similarities there are between the dwarves and the "tusser"s.
> >
> > While dwarves are definately in norwegian mythology...
> > we even have a song which starts like this: (roughly translated)
> > ""Nisser" and dwarves,
> > builds in the mountains." (It even rhymes in norwegian =)
> >
> > It seems like JRR Tolkien have picked out most of the other races
> from
> > nordic mythology, namely dwarves, trolls, ogres, giants.... ++
> > But the elves as they are pictured in JRR and BR, does *not* come
> from
> > nordic mythology.. (norwegian at least ;)
> >
> > Well... I'm no expert in nordic mythology myself.
> > But if it isn't totally accurate, its darn close =)
> >
> > Siebharrin the Lich
> >
> >
> *
> ************************************************** ***********************
>
> > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with
> the
> line
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
> ************************************************** ****
> ********************
> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
> line
> Actually if you look at the Nordic Mythology you can read that there are
two "kind" of gods, one of them are the likes of Thor and Odin etc....
and the other is Frøya and Frøy f. inst. these are called something else
the other kind of Gods. I can't remember the name and they are difficult
to write in English anyway, but just thought I would mention it...
Sindre
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07-14-1998, 03:08 PM #4Samuel WeissGuest
[BIRTHRIGHT] -Nordic elves? Where did they com
>Actually if you look at the Nordic Mythology you can read that there are
two "kind" of gods, one of them are the likes of Thor and Odin etc....
and the other is Frøya and Frøy f. inst. these are called something else
the other kind of Gods. I can't remember the name and they are difficult
to write in English anyway, but just thought I would mention it...<
Aesir and Vanir. Generally thought to represent two different groups of
people who mingled later in the region after early initial conflicts.
And svart-alfar are the dwarves. They tended to have different names
depending on what region a person was in, but they are all the same.
Svart-alfar interestingly have two AD&D races named/inspired by them. The
Xvarts and the Drow. That in itself should show the range of interpretations
of some of these critters.
Samwise
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07-14-1998, 05:29 PM #5Sindre BergGuest
[BIRTHRIGHT] -Nordic elves? Where did they com
Samuel Weiss wrote:
> Aesir and Vanir. Generally thought to represent two different groups
> of
> people who mingled later in the region after early initial conflicts.
> And svart-alfar are the dwarves. They tended to have different names
> depending on what region a person was in, but they are all the same.
> Svart-alfar interestingly have two AD&D races named/inspired by them.
> The
> Xvarts and the Drow. That in itself should show the range of
> interpretations
> of some of these critters.
>
> Samwise
>
> *******
> ************************************************** *****************
> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
> line
> Thanks for giving me the names.... (this being a bit embarrasing
since I am an
Norwegian... though we call them Æser :) Anyway my point was that if you
look at how
the Vanir's are discribed I seem to recall they looked a bit like my
mental picture of an elf...you know delicate, not very strong, that kind
of thing....
Or I might of course be just blabbering about something I don't know the
slightest about ?
Sindre
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07-14-1998, 11:26 PM #6David Sean BrownGuest
[BIRTHRIGHT] -Nordic elves? Where did they com
>
> Actually if you look at the Nordic Mythology you can read that there are
> two "kind" of gods, one of them are the likes of Thor and Odin etc....
> and the other is Frøya and Frøy f. inst. these are called something else
> the other kind of Gods. I can't remember the name and they are difficult
> to write in English anyway, but just thought I would mention it...
I had thought that Frey and Freya were considered "faeries"..not in the
same sense as the D&D faerie (elf, sprite, etc)..if mempry serves me
correctly, their kind ruled as Gods before Odin and his lot came along,
and took up the fight against Surtur and teh giants..
Sean
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07-15-1998, 03:25 AM #7Samuel WeissGuest
[BIRTHRIGHT] -Nordic elves? Where did they com
>though we call them Æser :) Anyway my point was that if you
look at how the Vanir's are discribed I seem to recall they looked a bit
like my
mental picture of an elf...you know delicate, not very strong, that kind
of thing....<
I have no idea how to make that cool A and E thingie with my computer, but
that is how it would be written of course.
As for the Vanir, well Frey was appointed ruler of Alfheim, so that is not a
far fetched picture in the least.
Samwise
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07-15-1998, 09:00 AM #8James RayGuest
[BIRTHRIGHT] -Nordic elves? Where did they com
Hmmm - I had thought that ALL of the Nordic Gods had come from primeaval
ice, and had been "licked" free of it to "give it another go". Why is
mythology OTHER than Greek myths so hard to get a hold of?
- ----------
From: David Sean Brown
I had thought that Frey and Freya were considered "faeries"..not in the
same sense as the D&D faerie (elf, sprite, etc)..if mempry serves me
correctly, their kind ruled as Gods before Odin and his lot came along,
and took up the fight against Surtur and teh giants..
Sean
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07-15-1998, 09:07 AM #9James RayGuest
[BIRTHRIGHT] -Nordic elves? Where did they com
try holding down on the ALT key, and pressing "146" on your number pad, way
over on the far right of your key board... "145" will give you the
lower-case version Æ æ
What on earth is it called, though? Thats probly why we dont have it in
OUR alphabet...one of those letters nobody knew the name to LOL
"Spell 'Æsir' "...
- ----------
> From: Samuel Weiss
> I have no idea how to make that cool A and E thingie with my computer,
but that is how it would be written of course.
> As for the Vanir, well Frey was appointed ruler of Alfheim, so that is
not a far fetched picture in the least.
>
> Samwise
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07-15-1998, 06:30 PM #10Samuel WeissGuest
[BIRTHRIGHT] -Nordic elves? Where did they com
>Hmmm - I had thought that ALL of the Nordic Gods had come from primeaval
ice, and had been "licked" free of it to "give it another go". Why is
mythology OTHER than Greek myths so hard to get a hold of?<
Wow. Not in the least actually. Only the first one (or three depending on
which story you read. Also the identities change depending on which story,
but that is another topic.) Most of the Norse power came about the old
fashoned way-boffing. Usually with courtship rituals related to the earth
warming up and becoming fertile after the winter.
And let me see....æ cool. Took awhile but I made it work.
·Æsir are the descendants of Odin, Vili, and Ve. Spirti, Will and Holy.
And yes it is a bit more difficult to find Norse myth works. Everyone is so
caught up with the Greek/Roman one.s But ifyou want really hard, go looking
for Celtic or Egyptian sources. There is a trial
Samwise
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