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  1. #11
    Pieter A de Jong
    Guest

    The elves shall *rise* again! [

    At 09:02 PM 6/30/98 -0700, Gary V. Foss wrote:
    >One last note on the decline of elves. The most important, telling,
    significant,
    >ultimate proof that elves are in decline. Ready? Here it is:
    >
    >They're written that way.
    >
    >Elves are almost ALWAYS in decline. Aside from being long lived, blondish,
    skinny and
    >musical, they're inevitably also on the way out. It's Tolkien, baby,
    there's just no
    >fightin' it. If you have a world with elves that are slowly dominating the
    planet,
    >then there is something inherently wrong with it. It's unnatural. What's
    next? A
    >breed of six foot halflings? (Not stouts, not tallfellows... we'll call them
    >ganglies.) Innocent orcs? Dwarven teetotalers? Maybe we should just have
    tapioca
    >breathing dragons or make the Gorgon a surrogate mother?
    >
    Yeah, I know, it's Tolkien, he's to blame. I liked his books, but every so
    often, I despaired of the stupid decisions that were made. Just once, I'd
    like to see a RPG world where humans aren't the future of the world. For
    all I care it could be the orcs who are going to take it all. However, this
    business of the humans must always win in the end in TSR's worlds is really
    kind of annoying after a while.

    Pieter A de Jong
    Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
    University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

  2. #12
    David Sean Brown
    Guest

    The elves shall *rise* again! [

    > >No, but if the elf has all the sources in that area, the human is outta
    > >luck, no matter how powerful he/she is..he'she can't even establish a
    > >level 0 cause once the warding is up, they can't get in to make the new
    > >source...
    > >
    > sure he can...he's a wizard. Wizards have a decent shot of penetrating the
    > mists of a Warding spell. But yes, 1100 dudes running into an elven forest
    > are dead, dead, dead. Any which way you slice it, they will lose to even a
    > fourth of their number of elves in the woods.

    As far as I knew, other than the wizard who cast the spell, everone has
    the same chance of penetrating the mists...not much...unless I missed a
    rule in there somewhere..

  3. #13
    bloebick@juno.com (Benja
    Guest

    The elves shall *rise* again! [

    On Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:59:22 EDT DKEvermore@aol.com writes:
    >I determined that this particular Ward, because of who was casting it
    >(an Elf)
    >did not affect wildlife. One PC Magician had a familiar and it was
    >able to
    >lead them. He he he the fact that it led them straight into an ambush
    >is
    >beside the fact. Hey, it was just an animal doing it's best, right?
    >::evil
    >chuckle::
    >
    >There you have it. One, maybe two ways in. You gotta be inventive in
    >my
    >game...
    >
    >-DKE

    So polymorph into a hawk and fly in. Or a rabbit, a deer, a duck, a
    mouse, anything. And waltz right in. ;)

    Benjamin

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  4. #14
    mg26
    Guest

    The elves shall *rise* again! [

    hmmm , do I see pity for the fluffy pointy ears fellows?

    well I'll contribute by saying couple of words:

    Elves in TSR are like mutants in Marvel , poor , holders
    of true magic , everyone despites them apart themselves ,
    they are a losing race , ect ect...

    This is so .... well not to say silly , but it is pathetic
    the way everyone thinks about elves , most people do not
    see that the actual race emerging is not the elves
    (munchkin , minimaxers , ect ect) but the Kobold empire ,
    and remember the first elf was slained by a gobo , so the
    emerging race and the race of success are the Kobolds and
    Goblins , and humans and elves will be wiped out.....


    Giovanni Garzelli

  5. #15
    Trizt
    Guest

    The elves shall *rise* again! [

    On 01-Jul-98, Pieter A de Jong (pad300@mail.usask.ca) wrote about Re:
    [BIRTHRIGHT] - The elves shall *rise* again! [not]:

    - ->Yeah, I know, it's Tolkien, he's to blame. I liked his books, but every so
    - ->often, I despaired of the stupid decisions that were made. Just once, I'd
    - ->like to see a RPG world where humans aren't the future of the world. For
    - ->all I care it could be the orcs who are going to take it all. However, this
    - ->business of the humans must always win in the end in TSR's worlds is really
    - ->kind of annoying after a while.

    I must say that I agree with Pieter. IMO humans should become limited in some
    classes like all the demihuman and dark races are, in classes which has to do
    with nature. This becouse elves (atleast TSR version of them) are said to live
    so close to nature, so they should have unlimited access to thise nature
    preserving classes, while humans who does change the nature to fit them, not
    the otherway around should be limitide in those classes or even barred from
    them.
    Maybe it should be time for a 3rd edition of AD&D which are less "human", for
    thoose who likes to play a human dominated game could play Ars Magica.


    //Trizt of Ward^RITE

    --------------------
    E-Mail: trizt@iname.com URL1: http://home.bip.net/trizt/
    ICQ# : 13696780 URL2: http://www.ukko.dyn.ml.org/~trizt/
    Nick : Trizt IRC: lib.hel.fi Channel: #Opers
    MUD: callandor.imaginary.com 5317
    --------------------
    OS : AmigaOS 3.1 / openBSD 2.2 CPU: PPC603e/160Mhz & MC68040/25Mhz
    IP : ukko.dyn.ml.org
    --------------------

  6. #16
    James Ray
    Guest

    The elves shall *rise* again! [

    I dont know about basing wether to do a 3rd edition on allowing some other
    race to be dominant one in the campaign world. It shouldnt be THAT hard to
    "tweak" the existing campaigns enough to allow for what you're wanting to
    do. It seems to me, though, that if TSR thought there would be a market
    for such a non-human campaign, they would have already done it by now. On
    the other hand, ...I dont remember ever hearing their marketing folks were
    the sharpest crayons in the box, either. What would probably work real
    well would simply be to roll back the clock on the campaign, back to a time
    before the humans became ascendant. With the maps of Cerilia, it wouldnt
    be nearly as rough a task as with some of the other campaign worlds they
    have. You could even run your BR in an alternate Aebrynis where the humans
    never settled Cerilia, the Gods died somewhere other than Deismaar, or any
    number of other little twists.
    - ----------
    > I must say that I agree with Pieter. IMO humans should become limited in
    some classes like all the demihuman and dark races are, in classes which
    has to do with nature. This becouse elves (atleast TSR version of them) are
    said to live so close to nature, so they should have unlimited access to
    thise nature preserving classes, while humans who does change the nature to
    fit them, not the otherway around should be limitide in those classes or
    even barred from them.
    > Maybe it should be time for a 3rd edition of AD&D which are less "human",
    for thoose who likes to play a human dominated game could play Ars Magica.
    >
    > //Trizt of Ward^RITE

  7. #17
    Pindanin@aol.co
    Guest

    The elves shall *rise* again! [

    Well agree with ya'll about the humans always winning and dominating the
    world, however if you ever have played in any of my caimpagns with my players
    you will soon learn that humans are not the dominating part of the party. In
    my birthright caimpagn right now we have 6 players. 1 half-elf, 1 dwarf, 2
    elves and 3 humans. That is "only" 50% of the party's population. Much
    greater than the average dont you think. In addition, one of the humans is
    playing human only because her class is restricted to humans (paladin). The
    party leader is the dwarf.

    I also agree about limiting humans level limits in classes such as ranger,
    druid and bard. The elves are much more attuned to nature and music. IF not
    limiting human level limits, i think elves should have racial bonuses to
    certain ablilities of these classes to help the out hence showing thier
    closeness with nature.

    Thanks

    Pindanin@aol.com

  8. #18
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    The elves shall *rise* again! [

    Pindanin@aol.com wrote:

    > Well agree with ya'll about the humans always winning and dominating the
    > world, however if you ever have played in any of my caimpagns with my players
    > you will soon learn that humans are not the dominating part of the party. In
    > my birthright caimpagn right now we have 6 players. 1 half-elf, 1 dwarf, 2
    > elves and 3 humans. That is "only" 50% of the party's population. Much
    > greater than the average dont you think. In addition, one of the humans is
    > playing human only because her class is restricted to humans (paladin). The
    > party leader is the dwarf.

    On an individual basis, I think you're right. I find demi-humans more
    interesting than humans quite often. Plus, their relative shortcomings make up
    for their relative strengths.

    > I also agree about limiting humans level limits in classes such as ranger,
    > druid and bard. The elves are much more attuned to nature and music. IF not
    > limiting human level limits, i think elves should have racial bonuses to
    > certain ablilities of these classes to help the out hence showing thier
    > closeness with nature.

    I'd agree with you here, excepting that BR elves can't be druids. Druids in the
    setting are not so much "nature priests" as they are priests of Erik, and our
    fair flighty friends have a distinctly anti-priest POV. Sure, priests of Erik
    look like druids, but there should be a few distinct differences. A couple of
    people have mentioned that they should have to use the standard XP chart for
    priests rather than the druidic one, which slows down their level advancement,
    and they don't have the druidic "circles" and initiates, etc., so they don't have
    to battle their way up levels the same way PHB druids do.

    Personally, I think this is the weakest part of the elven anti-priest thing. I
    mean, if the elves were going to worship a god, Erik would be their choice. The
    reason they don't is probably more related to issues of game balance than
    anything else. Elves do not need a bloodline to be "true" mages, right? To
    compensate for this they cannot be priests. Simple as that.

    - -Gary

  9. #19
    bloebick@juno.com (Benja
    Guest

    The elves shall *rise* again! [

    On Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:04:42 EDT DKEvermore@aol.com writes:
    >In a message dated 98-07-01 19:05:44 EDT, you write:
    >
    >> So polymorph into a hawk and fly in. Or a rabbit, a deer, a duck, a
    >> mouse, anything. And waltz right in. ;)
    >>
    >Polymorphed, shapeshifted, she still has that intelligence and I use
    >the
    >perpective that that is what triggers the effect.
    >
    >-DKE

    Polymorph, feeblemind, fly in, have friend on inside cast dispel magic a
    lot?

    Benjamin

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  10. #20
    Tim Nutting
    Guest

    The elves shall *rise* again! [

    As far as Elvish Druids are concerned, might want to try using a modified
    Preserver/Defiler system as suggested in Spells and Magic. All powers
    taken from the magic of the land, no gods required.

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