Cerillia in 600 years

[Caleb Chitwood]

I've thought about the psychological implications of being immortal and as
of yet I don't think I've satisfied myself, but here are a few of the things
that I've considered might aid elves in not going insane. The first is
there intelligence, if we just wanted to be really simple we could say
"Listen, elves are just plain ole too smart to go insane on a regular
basis." This isn't to say that they can't, just that the racial tendancy
towards serious gray matter helps them combat insanity as a whole. Another
thing to consider is that one of the things that would make immortality so
tough is watching those around you die. However, most elves live in an
elven nation. As a result their friends and loved ones are living just as
long as they are. Of course, an adventuring elf would be in the world with
"short lived" humans so he might be more inclined to go nuts. Another thing
is the whole "time flows different in elven realms" thing. I've thought and
thought about this one and I still don't know what I think. If this has
already been discussed before I was around, I really wish somebody would
send me what was decided. But, one way to the other, you could say that
this helps them out a bit. Now, you were saying that immortals would build
up so many memories over time that they would run a risk of losing them in a
traumatic experience. I think this is a very realistic look at immortality.
However, it is a look at *human* immortality. In a BR novel that I read ( I
can't remember which one) an elf and a human are discussing the humanity's
mortality versus the immortality of the elves. To my surprise, the elf was
actually jealous of the human. The point that is made is that humans know
that their time is numbered, and as a result they are much more passionate
about things. Elves however, have unlimited time and for them, there is
always tomorrow. In essence, they are the ultimate procrastinators. They
choose to put things off because they know they can. The result is that
they aren't very passionate about the things that they do. I think that is
a pretty intelligent view of elven immortality. Now, I said all that to
make this point: perhaps elves don't run the risk of loosing their memories
because they don't make many of them. I picture elves spending much of
their time in thought and meditation rather that action. Perhaps this
tendancy towards idleness combined w/ their intelligence and whatever other
factors you care to throw in is enough to stave off insanity and let them
live as "normal" elves for the entirety of the immortal lives. This is just
the way I look at it and I'm open to other suggestions. On the other side
of the argument, I do imagine that there are elves who get tired of living
and go out into the world, in essence, seeking their own deaths. I think
there would be a pretty good chance of insanity in these elves, seeing as
how they are alread a bit unbalanced. This is also one of the reasons that
I think many elves that are seen outside of elven realms are very old.

Caleb

[veryfastperson@juno.com]

>On the other
>side
>of the argument, I do imagine that there are elves who get tired of
>living
>and go out into the world, in essence, seeking their own deaths.

Hmm, could Rhoubhe Manslayer be considered one of these elves? He is one
who constantly goes into the world, could he too be seeking his death for
some strange "elven" reason? He has been alive longer then all the elves
i can think of...

> I
>think
>there would be a pretty good chance of insanity in these elves, seeing
>as
>how they are alread a bit unbalanced. This is also one of the reasons
>that
>I think many elves that are seen outside of elven realms are very old.

Wow... An insane Rhoubhe running around Anuire... it has some good gaming
sides to it :)


>

>Caleb
>
>************************************************* **************************
>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
>line
>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

__________________________________________________ ___________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

[E Gray]

- -----Original Message-----
From: The Olesens
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Monday, June 29, 1998 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Cerillia in 600 years



>> >Oh, and by the way, what will the Gorgon wear now that plate mail is out
>> >of style? Bulletproof combat suit +5?
>>
>> I think he'll be dead by then....


>I agree. I like the idea that technology was suppresed after Desimaar.
> I forgot about the Gorgon's Improvined Armor Class Death (turns to
>stone).


Here's a suggestion:

One day, the Gorgon's servants/high-muckety-mucks wake up to the
fact that their master is now, well stone-cold dead, and naturally there's
a fight for leadership among his dubiously qualified successors, which
eventually spreads outward, followed by strikes into the heart of the
*former* Gorgon's domain, and eventually capture and display in the
conqueror's capital of the remains of said personage. Here's the
clincher, the Gorgon's mind is still active and aware, and capable of
*some* functions, say whispering in a few ears, scratching notes, twisting
some souls. Perhaps not as much as before, but still capable of some
major damage..

>Do you think 1 point of AC improvement every 100 years would be
>appropiate? (when he reaches the AC of solid stone he dies).


Depends on when I want him to die...

>The Ruins of Empire might have also slowed Techneolgical advances. I'd
>say the biggest advances were made during the Empire.

Some of them yes...

>The big uglies (gorgon, spider) will have also slowed technology with
thier >wars.


To some extent, yes.....sped others though..

[E Gray]

- -----Original Message-----
From: Caleb Chitwood
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Monday, June 29, 1998 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Cerillia in 600 years


>I've thought about the psychological implications of being immortal and as
>of yet I don't think I've satisfied myself,

I should hope you wouldn't, we don't actually have *anything* real to go on,
thus one approach can be as valid as any other...

> but here are a few of the things that I've considered might aid elves in
not >going insane. The first is there intelligence, if we just wanted to be
really >simple we could say "Listen, elves are just plain ole too smart to
go insane >on a regular basis." This isn't to say that they can't, just
that the racial >endancy owards serious gray matter helps them combat
insanity as a >whole.

Rather flimsy, since AFAIK, there's no discernible difference in the % of
smart/average/dumb humans who go insane. In fact, there are some who
believe the *most* intelligent among us are actually psychotic...of course
this is soley based on human experience, it doesn't neccessarily apply
to Elves..

> Another thing to consider is that one of the things that would make
>immortality so tough is watching those around you die.

Perhaps, it's hard to tell..




> Now, you were saying that immortals would build up so many memories >over
time that they would run a risk of losing them in a traumatic experience >I
think this is a very realistic look at immortality.

Aah, well thank Robert Adams then..

>However, it is a look at *human* immortality.

Yep..

>In a BR novel that I read ( I can't remember which one) an elf and a human
>are discussing the humanity's mortality versus the immortality of the
elves.

Haven't read any myself, but it's a common type of discussion..

>To my surprise, the elf was actually jealous of the human.

That grass is always greener on the other side, and mayhaps the author
showed some bias. Have to make us Humans better than the BEM's,
y'know?

>This is also one of the reasons that I think many elves that are seen
outside >of elven realms are very old.

Well, perhaps we've explained *something* .

[Samuel Weiss]

>Ok, example...Milo Morai of the Horseclans books(by Robert Adams...good
read if you can find them...), is also immortal, at least as far as the
reader can tell....but his memories tend to get fuzzy, and according to the
GURPS
version, at least, maybe not the books if he or any other immortal(there are
quite a few of them...)takes a blow to the head, they stand a substantial
chance of losing their memories.<

In the books as well. He was mugged around 1939 and hit on the head and has
no memories at all from before that year.
Not that there have been any new books in years for the series. Robert
Adams, die or something and i not see it in some trade magazine? Or did he
just get tired of writing pulp tripe? (I like pulp tripe BTW, I am just
honest about it.)

Samwise

[bloebick@juno.com (Benja]

On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:26:40 -0400 The Olesens
writes:
>So what does Long Life do for an elf?

Nothing. Nothing at all.

Benjamin

__________________________________________________ ___________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

[Phil Burge]

Caleb Chitwood wrote:

> I've thought about the psychological implications of being immortal and as
> of yet I don't think I've satisfied myself, but here are a few of the things
> that I've considered might aid elves in not going insane. The first is
> there intelligence, if we just wanted to be really simple we could say
> "Listen, elves are just plain ole too smart to go insane on a regular
> basis." This isn't to say that they can't, just that the racial tendancy
> towards serious gray matter helps them combat insanity as a whole.

Unfortunately, a high INT generally also indicates an active mind which means
an Elf being immortal would get bored and this would probably drive the poor
sucker insane (anything to relieve it!). On the other hand, you could use the
Elvish immortality of Tolkien, where although elves are immortal they can die
by violence or by "growing weary of the world". From there they go to the Halls
of Awaiting where they wait to be born again.

> Another
> thing to consider is that one of the things that would make immortality so
> tough is watching those around you die. However, most elves live in an
> elven nation. As a result their friends and loved ones are living just as
> long as they are. Of course, an adventuring elf would be in the world with
> "short lived" humans so he might be more inclined to go nuts.

True enough

> Another thing
> is the whole "time flows different in elven realms" thing. I've thought and
> thought about this one and I still don't know what I think. If this has
> already been discussed before I was around, I really wish somebody would
> send me what was decided.

Ditto.



> But, one way to the other, you could say that
> this helps them out a bit. Now, you were saying that immortals would build
> up so many memories over time that they would run a risk of losing them in a
> traumatic experience.

Good idea... has possibilities...

> I think this is a very realistic look at immortality.
> However, it is a look at *human* immortality. In a BR novel that I read ( I
> can't remember which one) an elf and a human are discussing the humanity's
> mortality versus the immortality of the elves. To my surprise, the elf was
> actually jealous of the human. The point that is made is that humans know
> that their time is numbered, and as a result they are much more passionate
> about things. Elves however, have unlimited time and for them, there is
> always tomorrow.

But then how do you explain elves like Rhoube who are very passionate (in
Rhoube's case about destroying Humankind

In essence, they are the ultimate procrastinators. They

> choose to put things off because they know they can. The result is that
> they aren't very passionate about the things that they do. I think that is
> a pretty intelligent view of elven immortality. Now, I said all that to
> make this point: perhaps elves don't run the risk of loosing their memories
> because they don't make many of them. I picture elves spending much of
> their time in thought and meditation rather that action. Perhaps this
> tendancy towards idleness combined w/ their intelligence and whatever other
> factors you care to throw in is enough to stave off insanity and let them
> live as "normal" elves for the entirety of the immortal lives. This is just
> the way I look at it and I'm open to other suggestions. On the other side
> of the argument, I do imagine that there are elves who get tired of living
> and go out into the world, in essence, seeking their own deaths. I think
> there would be a pretty good chance of insanity in these elves, seeing as
> how they are alread a bit unbalanced. This is also one of the reasons that
> I think many elves that are seen outside of elven realms are very old.
>
> Caleb
>
>

- -- Stay tuned, same bat time, same bat channel,

Phil.

[Caleb Chitwood]

perhaps passionate was a poor word for what I was trying to say. You are
very correct about Roubhe being passionate. I do believe that he is an
exception to the rule, but passionate was still a poor word. I meant to say
something inbetween passionate and 'in a hurry'. In this case passionate
became too strong a word, and if I'd said "Elves just can't seem to get in a
hurry about anything." it would have seemed like a weak argument.
Unfortunately, I can't think of a word that fits what I'm looking for here,
so you folks are just gonna have to use your imaginations to try and
understand me : )

Caleb

[E Gray]

- -----Original Message-----
From: Samuel Weiss
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Monday, June 29, 1998 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Cerillia in 600 years


>>Ok, example...Milo Morai of the Horseclans books(by Robert Adams...good
>read if you can find them...), is also immortal, at least as far as the
>reader can tell....but his memories tend to get fuzzy, and according to the
>GURPS version, at least, maybe not the books if he or any other immortal
>(there are quite a few of them...)takes a blow to the head, they stand a
>substantial chance of losing their memories.<

>In the books as well. He was mugged around 1939 and hit on the head and
>has no memories at all from before that year.

Yes, well that happened only once which is hardly conclusive of anything.
One head injury doesn't tell the whole story, which is why I said maybe not
in the books..

>Not that there have been any new books in years for the series. Robert
>Adams, die or something and i not see it in some trade magazine?

He died in 1990 or therabouts,

> Or did he just get tired of writing pulp tripe? (I like pulp tripe BTW, I
am just
>honest about it.)


Tripe is good, not so pretentious as other books.....so does anyone want
to see some BR novels done in the style of Robert Adams? For those
who don't know the books, well, read them yourself. And go here

http://www.sff.net/locus/b3.html#A33

For a complete listing..

[Samuel Weiss]

>>Not that there have been any new books in years for the series. Robert
>Adams, die or something and i not see it in some trade magazine?

He died in 1990 or therabouts,<

Oh well. i sort of figured as much. Still, sorry to hear about it. He was
good at pulp. Not everyone is.

> Or did he just get tired of writing pulp tripe? (I like pulp tripe BTW, I
am just
>honest about it.)


Tripe is good, not so pretentious as other books.....so does anyone want
to see some BR novels done in the style of Robert Adams? <

Another pulp fan. I like peopel who can appreciate cheap throw aways for
what they are. And authors who can deal with knowing that is what they
write. As for BR novels in that style, why not. Heck, between Highlander and
Horseclans, they form the basis for a lot of my BR ideas. A scion with long
life and invulnerability would be about as close to Uncle Milo as you can
get.

Samwise