At 14:22 23-06-98 -0600, you wrote:
>At 12:31 PM 6/23/98 -0500, Randax wrote:
>>In previous work done by that Mighty Dane Jan Arnoldus, the number of true
>>in published materials (before TotHW) was tallied. The count was 72 human
>>blooded wizards and 12 elves. Assuming half of these have apprentices and
5 at
>>the Temple of Rilni, you have 131. Allowing 10 for Tribes, add a few PCs and
>>(DM created) NPCs we're at (or above) the limit.
>>>From these demographics, elves are definately in the minority- moreso than I
>>recalled. Your post made me dig for the old thread. I'd revise the
>estimate of
>>elven mages to about 25. 12+2(those I recall from Tribes)+7
>>slop factor). They're rarer than you or I thought.
>Yes Randax, I agree, there are probably more blooded humans than there are
>elves. However, from your figures, you are only considering blooded mages
>as true wizards. This suggests a 3 steps differentiation between the types
>of magic users, magicians, wizards, and blooded wizards. The 1st
>(magicians) and 2nd (wizards) steps might be available as lt's, however I
>would suggest not allowing blooded true mages as lt's. Rather, they should
>be allies and regents of their own. Indeed, it would be very difficult to
>acquire a true wizard as a lt. as the only non-blooded true wizards are
>elves, who would likely require paymnt in something other than cash.

It's nice to be remembered although I have to say that I'm a Dutchman, not a
Great Dane.
Randax, you're right to assume a threeway split in mages. You should divide
them in magicians, true mages, and realmspell capable mages.
magicians being the practioners of the 'lesser' magics
true mages being blooded human mages and all elven and half-elven mages
realmspell capable mages being blooded mages with source holdings.

I had tallied all the mages mentioned in the different publications which
means that ofcourse the emphasis is on those mages with source holdings.
There are only a few elven mages mentioned but that is partly because there
are so few elven realms. I think it is safe to assume that the humans don't
know how many unblooded elven mages there are, this is one of those things
every DM has to decide for himself.

When you take the approach that the number of elven mages is unknown you got
a bit more breathing space in your demographics. When I reread the section
on the number of wizards (page12Rulebook) before replying to this post I
noticed that it actually says:
"In all of Cerillia there are no more than six or seven score true mages;
less than half of that number are regents capable of wielding realm magic"
This would mean 120-140 Human true mages (i.e.blooded),
of which around 65 are sourceholding mages.
This corresponds to the tally of human mages published.

I agree with the sentiment that there is virtually no way to get an true
mage lieutenant. (The only exception I might make is for an elven PC, or
when somebody really has adventured for it)

Now for something completely different how do Elven rangers view their
spellcasting ability.
They know it is not normal magic, they also know that the humans have a good
wich grants his priests the same spells. In fact most human rangers believe
it is this god which is granting these spells.
Elves normally wouldn't want to have anything to do with such spells derived
from human gods.
But since these ranger spells were always being granted to rangers, even
long before humans ever set foot on the shores of Cerillia, they would
accept them.
I can't shake the feeling however that even those early Elven rangers must
have had some rationale for these abilities. Since they didn't believe in
gods (or even had the concept of gods) I'm thinking along more animistic
lines. The spirits of nature are aiding their choosen(Elven Rangers). I'm
still wondering if such beliefs would have worked and wether they would have
survived contact with the human pantheon.

Any input on this matter would be appreciated.

Jan Arnoldus
Double Dutch