# of true Mages (was about cost

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

- ----- Begin Included Message -----
Why are the elves still alive in your campaign Randax? They have no
priestly magic, much smaller armies (lower population base), and now
according to you, the humans have magical superiority by a large factor, as
the number of human wizards alone exceeds the number of wizards available to
the elves, never mind magicians. To be blunt, Rhuobe Manslayer wouldn't
last 3 domain turns in your world. Why hasn't Coeranys expanded into and
chopped down the Sielwode, with similar invasions happening all over the
continent. It's not the like the elves have friendly relations with more
than one in four human nations. Unless the elves have some advantage, the
human nations should be swarming all over them. Which regent do you know
whose going to pass up on a shot at a few extra provinces with minimal risk?


- ----- End Included Message -----

Well, that's pretty much sums up why the elves have been getting their butt
kicked for the past 2000 years. Once the dominant race of all Cerilia, the poor
Sidhe are now reduced to a few "reservations", most of which are struggling
for survival in the face of human, humaniod, or awnshegh encroachment.

Randax

[Pieter A de Jong]

At 12:14 PM 6/25/98 -0400, Erik wrote:
>
>>First, it's not like all these other nations are the Elves friends. I
>>would
>>suggest that these other nations would much more likely join the land
>>rush,
>>also attacking the elves as most of the nations that your talking
>>about are
>>human. Remember, humans don't like Elves in this world.
>
>Yes, and how would Duke Avan react if Duke Boeruine suddenly attacked
>Rhoubhe? He would amass his armies, and strik at Boeruine, while his
>armies were off killing elves. Duke Boeruine would be too cautious to
>invade Rhobhe.
>Humans don't like elves, but that doesnt' mean they like eachother :)
>
>Erik
>
He'd say great and maybe try to steal Rhuobe's province for himself while
letting Boeruine do all the fighting. He would not attack Boeruine. If he
attacked Boeruine he'd annoy every othre human realm in Anuire, and prove
himself unworthy of the Iron Throne (supporting the enemies of humankind).
You don't backstab people who are fighting your racial enemies. To put this
in real world terms, what you just proposed is Iraq invading Syria, when
Syria is busy with a war with Israel. It doesn't happen because Iraq
backstabbing Syria in such a fashion would result in every other Islamic
state going out of their way to hose Iraq.
Rhuobe is a threat to all the human domains in the vicinity. If not, over
the past 5 centuries, somebody would have put together an alliance to
destroy him. Why? because the succesful destruction of such a major
awnsheglien would likely put whoever accomplished it either on the fast
track to, or if they were already close (Avan, Boeruine, Ghoere) on the throne.

Pieter A de Jong
Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

More old elven lore. I won't clutter up the list by posting more. Look
for my sob story in the old archives.

Randax

- ----- Begin Included Message -----

>In previous work done by that Mighty Dane Jan Arnoldus, the number of true
mages
>in published materials (before TotHW) was tallied. The count was 72 human
>blooded wizards and 12 elves. Assuming half of these have apprentices and 5 at
>the Temple of Rilni, you have 131. Allowing 10 for Tribes, add a few PCs and
>(DM created) NPCs we're at (or above) the limit.
>
>>From these demographics, elves are definately in the minority- moreso than I
>recalled. Your post made me dig for the old thread. I'd revise the
estimate of
>elven mages to about 25. 12+2(those I recall from Tribes)+7 apprentices+4(20%
>slop factor). They're rarer than you or I thought.
>
>Randax
>
Yes Randax, I agree, there are probably more blooded humans than there are
elves. However, from your figures, you are only considering blooded mages
as true wizards. This suggests a 3 steps differentiation between the types
of magic users, magicians, wizards, and blooded wizards. The 1st
(magicians) and 2nd (wizards) steps might be available as lt's, however I
would suggest not allowing blooded true mages as lt's. Rather, they should
be allies and regents of their own. Indeed, it would be very difficult to
acquire a true wizard as a lt. as the only non-blooded true wizards are
elves, who would likely require paymnt in something other than cash.

- ----- End Included Message -----

I believe we agree on most everything- how hard it would be to hire a wizard etc
except for the fact that all elven wizards, blooded or not, are included in
the above figures. Granted, most of the elves in published works are blooded,
but with only 140 true mages, there in no room left for a significant number of
unidentified, unblooded elves running about.

When I say significant, I mean 5-10. You could sneak in an unblooded elven
wizard here or there to fit your story, or mess with the number of human
apprentices; decreasing their number in favor of a few more elves. In general
though, there just isn't enough room for more than a handful without changing a
fundamental premise of BR.

There are a number of good pro-elven arguements for an increased number or
power of elven wizards that fly in the face of the hard published numbers. Mostof these involve elven immortality. This is one of the major reasons, if you
accept the published material as gospel, I say elven immortality is a myth.
A couple thousand year lifespan effectively immortal to the ephemeral humans-
sure. Truly immortal?- no. I don't think that we, as mortal beings, can
really comprehend the ramifications of an immortal race. The initial BR authorsincluded it because it sounded cool. I don't think they considered some of
the population, demographic, and storyline problems. They just thought it
would be neat. You can still have most of the cool story effects involving
elves with a 2000 year lifespan- "...you leave the fairy ring after dancing all
night with the Siegh and realise 30 years has passed!" without many of the
head-splitting complications "...if elves are immortal and attuned to magic, how come there aren't a lot more elven wizards?" Not to mention with unlimited
wizard level advancement, why aren't there a bunch of 'em who are level 30+?
I think even 3-4 level 30-40 elven wizards would radically alter the feel of the
entire BR setting. Wizards of any race who were that powerful would surely be
published by now if they were envisioned by the designers.

Elven immortality is a myth. Not that you need to tell your PCs that. Their
characters certainly think it's true.

Randax


- ----- End Included Message -----