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  1. #41
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Osprey@Aug 3 2004, 10:59 PM
    How about paying an XP cost for each level converted, perhaps 10% of the normal XP cost per level or so? Just an idea off the top of my head.
    10%? A very 2nd ed number.

    I would either use a LA or a 20% penalty. Pretty much the 2 3.5 standards when talking about leveling characters. Neither of which I think is necessary. I personally don't see why a character can't be a magician/wizard anyway. Assuming this is a 3.5 discussion and not a 2nd ed one 2nd end is totally broke in any examples used, by the way. Since 2nd ed was never consistent about anything like this - NPS were all treated as individuals and had different rules apply to them then did PCs. Hence no logic to be used in anything.

    Not your comment Osprey but,

    As far as D&D with examples of converting previous levels. I think there are some definite differences here.

    The paladin-blackguard issue for one. This is based on paladins having to be good. Since a paladin loses all of his paladin abilities when he becomes evil (a prerequsite for blackguard) what this prestige class did was to 'restore' some of those lost abilities in an evil way. If you note the explanation is for levels of fallen paladin (which is a paladin who has lost his abilities by becoming evil and not a separate class). The character did not lose any hit points or previously learned skills or feats when he became a fallen paladin.

    The Samurai- Kensai issue I don't see the corellary you are making. Unless I've missed something, there is nothing in the CW Kensai that refers to converting levels only that a Samurai can continue to advance as a Samurai if he take any levels in Kensai.
    Duane Eggert

  2. #42
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    10%? A very 2nd ed number.

    I would either use a LA or a 20% penalty. Pretty much the 2 3.5 standards when talking about leveling characters. Neither of which I think is necessary. I personally don't see why a character can't be a magician/wizard anyway. Assuming this is a 3.5 discussion and not a 2nd ed one 2nd end is totally broke in any examples used, by the way. Since 2nd ed was never consistent about anything like this - NPS were all treated as individuals and had different rules apply to them then did PCs. Hence no logic to be used in anything.
    Heh heh, sore point? :P

    There is one place I can think of a 10% xp penalty applied: the death of a wizard's familiar. This burns 100 xp per mage level, which is exactly 10% of the character's current level XP requirement. Not that they'll out and say it or anything.

    I personally think a magician/wizard is going to be incredibly weak for their level, that would be my main reason as a DM for allowing a conversion from magician to wizard. Much like a sorcerer/wizard, too spread out when they should be specialized, which means they can't stay competitive with equal-level characters or monsters and are going to have a rough time of it. Plus I think the idea of an unblooded magician being able to apply his experience to becoming a wizard once he becomes blooded also makes a certain amount of sense - just not on a 1-for-1 xp basis.

  3. #43
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    I offered a second choice, which I happen to prefer as well: that of allowing magician levels to stack when it comes to some spells.


    This needs a little work. Suppose you have a 7th-level magician who "acquires" a bloodline and reaches the 3rd level as a wizard, alright? Now, here's the deal:

    Under my idea of preference (the second one I provided), he would be able to cast 4 0-level spells, 2 1st-level spells, and 1 2nd-level spell as a 3rd level wizard, plus 5 0-level spells, 5 1st-level spells, 4 2nd-level spells, 3 3rd-level spells, and 2 4th-level spells as a 7th-level magician; all of this is typical, right? However, if any of his spells appears on both the magician and the wizard spell list, he casts it as a 10th-level caster for all purposes.

    In this way, he does not get a 10th caster level fireball, but all of his magician/wizard spells are cast at the 10th caster level!

  4. #44
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    RaspK,
    The problem with stacking levels like this is that the two classes won't necessarily (and most likely won't) hit the spells at the same level. Like sorcerer and wizard the two classes hit spells at different levels. Wiz gets 3rd level spells at 5th level Sorcerer gets them at 6th. And the spells might not be of the same spell level for each class - much talk about lowering the spell level of Div and Ill for magicians.


    If either of these are done then there is a huge hole in the system just waiting for min-maxers and rules lawyers to take advantage of.
    Duane Eggert

  5. #45
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    DMs are always responsible for keeping their players in line: one cannot take care of everything, can one?

    As for spell levels, spell effects always take caster level in mind, so don't fret it too much. I mean, this only enhances game- and roleplay, right? Or one could make up a new feat:
    Arcanist
    Your studies on what is eldritch has allowed you to grab the reigns of the power you hold within.
    Prerequisites: Knowledge (arcana) 12 ranks, Spellcraft 12 ranks, 5th-level wizard, 1st-level magician
    Benefit: Any magician spells you prepare that appear on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list are cast with a caster level equal to the sum of your magician and wizard class levels for all purposes.
    Normal: Magician and wizard levels do not stack for the purposes of spellcasting.
    Special: A wizard may take this feat as a bonus feat at any 5th class level as if it were an item creation or metamagic feat.

  6. #46
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Here is my point Rasp,


    A magician gets a 4th level Illusion spell at say 5th level. The wizard gets it at 7th level.

    The character is a 5th magician/3rd wizard.

    He can now cast that magician spell as if he was an 8th level caster, even though he couldn't cast it as a wizard. The stacking doesn't make sense unless he can cast the spell as either class first. Maybe reprasing it to a wizard spell he is able to cast might help on this issue.
    Duane Eggert

  7. #47
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Your idea seems just fine to me. How about this as well: that he has to both have deciphered/recorded/[whatever] it and be able to cast?

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