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  1. #11
    Phil Burge
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    The Olesens wrote:

    > Phil Burge wrote:
    > >
    >
    > > I've got a feeling that range is also dependent on STR but I can't remember
    > > the rules - something like STRx3 I think. Weapons useable is also dependent on
    > > STR and DEX. For example wielding a 2H sword takes more STR then a short sword
    > > - it makes alot of sense!
    >
    > This is covered in AD&D, it is just not clearly visible. It is covered
    > through enccumberance. A charachter with strength less than 9 (warrior
    > minimum) can't wear much armor while carrying a sword. If the weapon
    > weighs too much you get attack pentalties for low strength AND
    > encumberance. If you are exeptionally strong you get bonuses

    I understand - BUT it still allows someone with a STR of three to use a SHswd -
    they get modifiers but they probably couldn't even lift it. Plus, in AD&D a Bastard
    Swd can be wielded by anyone with one or two hands. Runequest gives differemt STR
    values (9 for 1H, 13 for 2H) Also DEX isn't taken into account (a really cool idea)
    eg. to use a mace requires a DEX of 7, while to wield a sword takes one of 9.

    Don't mean to sound as if I'm plugging for Runequest here, it just makes more sense
    in some ways - in other ways it's way too complicated. I play (have played) lots of
    game systems (AD&D, Saga, Runequest, White-Wolf Storyteller System....the lsit goes
    on) and some do things I like and some don't. I just thought that this was a good
    system.

    Phil.

  2. #12
    The Olesens
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    Phil Burge wrote:
    >
    > The Olesens wrote:
    >
    > > Phil Burge wrote:
    > > >
    > >
    > > > I've got a feeling that range is also dependent on STR but I can't remember
    > > > the rules - something like STRx3 I think. Weapons useable is also dependent on
    > > > STR and DEX. For example wielding a 2H sword takes more STR then a short sword
    > > > - it makes alot of sense!
    > >
    > > This is covered in AD&D, it is just not clearly visible. It is covered
    > > through enccumberance. A charachter with strength less than 9 (warrior
    > > minimum) can't wear much armor while carrying a sword. If the weapon
    > > weighs too much you get attack pentalties for low strength AND
    > > encumberance. If you are exeptionally strong you get bonuses
    >
    > I understand - BUT it still allows someone with a STR of three to use a SHswd -
    > they get modifiers but they probably couldn't even lift it. Plus, in AD&D a Bastard
    > Swd can be wielded by anyone with one or two hands. Runequest gives differemt STR
    > values (9 for 1H, 13 for 2H) Also DEX isn't taken into account (a really cool idea)
    > eg. to use a mace requires a DEX of 7, while to wield a sword takes one of 9.
    >
    > Don't mean to sound as if I'm plugging for Runequest here, it just makes more sense
    > in some ways - in other ways it's way too complicated. I play (have played) lots of
    > game systems (AD&D, Saga, Runequest, White-Wolf Storyteller System....the lsit goes
    > on) and some do things I like and some don't. I just thought that this was a good
    > system.
    >
    > Phil.


    A favorite computer game of mine, Diablo (go into a dungeon, fight, go
    up levels), uses similar thing so I don't really have a problem with it
    I just don't want to go making up requirements for every weapon.

  3. #13
    DKEvermore@aol.co
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    In a message dated 98-06-16 17:30:30 EDT, you write:

    > I understand - BUT it still allows someone with a STR of three to use a
    > SHswd -
    > they get modifiers but they probably couldn't even lift it. Plus, in AD&D a
    > Bastard
    > Swd can be wielded by anyone with one or two hands. Runequest gives
    > differemt STR
    > values (9 for 1H, 13 for 2H) Also DEX isn't taken into account (a really
    > cool idea)
    > eg. to use a mace requires a DEX of 7, while to wield a sword takes one of
    9.
    >
    >
    > Don't mean to sound as if I'm plugging for Runequest here, it just makes
    > more sense
    > in some ways - in other ways it's way too complicated. I play (have played)
    > lots of
    > game systems (AD&D, Saga, Runequest, White-Wolf Storyteller System....the
    > lsit goes
    > on) and some do things I like and some don't. I just thought that this was
    a
    > good
    > system.
    >
    > Phil.
    >
    I'm not going to defend the AD&D system, but I would like to point out some
    facts. First, I am trained in the use of all many of swords, including hand-
    and-a-half and Greatsword, and I can tell you from first hand experience that
    a "long" sword wieghs about 3-4 lbs., a heavy bastard sword about 5 lbs. and a
    great sword on the heavy side weighs 8 lbs (guesstimate, I haven't weigh
    mine). You can't try to tell me even a weak human could not lift it.

    You can tell me, however, they can't WEILD it effectively. It's a matter of
    leverage, really, with swords. A weak person will not effectively (or very
    weild it very long!) use the sword as it takes a LOT of energy to keep such a
    thing in motion. After all, you have to use it to defend yourself as well as
    attack, and although the blade will bash aside shields, weak parries from
    smaller swords and such, it takes a bit to get it in motion. The force you
    can generate towards the end of the sword, concentrated along a reasonably
    fine edge... you get the picture.

    Believe me, it IS more a matter of "encumberance" and how well your body is
    trained to deal with it than how strong you are.

    - -DKE

  4. #14
    The Olesens
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    DKEvermore@aol.com wrote:
    >
    > In a message dated 98-06-16 17:30:30 EDT, you write:
    >
    > > I understand - BUT it still allows someone with a STR of three to use a
    > > SHswd -
    > > they get modifiers but they probably couldn't even lift it. Plus, in AD&D a
    > > Bastard
    > > Swd can be wielded by anyone with one or two hands. Runequest gives
    > > differemt STR
    > > values (9 for 1H, 13 for 2H) Also DEX isn't taken into account (a really
    > > cool idea)
    > > eg. to use a mace requires a DEX of 7, while to wield a sword takes one of
    > 9.
    > >
    > >
    > > Don't mean to sound as if I'm plugging for Runequest here, it just makes
    > > more sense
    > > in some ways - in other ways it's way too complicated. I play (have played)
    > > lots of
    > > game systems (AD&D, Saga, Runequest, White-Wolf Storyteller System....the
    > > lsit goes
    > > on) and some do things I like and some don't. I just thought that this was
    > a
    > > good
    > > system.
    > >
    > > Phil.
    > >
    > I'm not going to defend the AD&D system, but I would like to point out some
    > facts. First, I am trained in the use of all many of swords, including hand-
    > and-a-half and Greatsword, and I can tell you from first hand experience that
    > a "long" sword wieghs about 3-4 lbs., a heavy bastard sword about 5 lbs. and a
    > great sword on the heavy side weighs 8 lbs (guesstimate, I haven't weigh
    > mine). You can't try to tell me even a weak human could not lift it.
    >
    > You can tell me, however, they can't WEILD it effectively. It's a matter of
    > leverage, really, with swords. A weak person will not effectively (or very
    > weild it very long!) use the sword as it takes a LOT of energy to keep such a
    > thing in motion. After all, you have to use it to defend yourself as well as
    > attack, and although the blade will bash aside shields, weak parries from
    > smaller swords and such, it takes a bit to get it in motion. The force you
    > can generate towards the end of the sword, concentrated along a reasonably
    > fine edge... you get the picture.
    >
    > Believe me, it IS more a matter of "encumberance" and how well your body is
    > trained to deal with it than how strong you are.
    >
    > -DKE

    Trained...proficency?

  5. #15
    MANTA
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    - ----------
    > From: James Ray
    > Way back in the 80's, Steve Jackson and Ian Livingston (or was it just
    one
    > of them?) released a series of "choose your own adventure"-type books
    with
    > an RPG style gaming system that made wide use of a luck attribute. You
    got
    > to roll a d6 and add 6 to it for your luck score. At various points in
    the
    > adventure, the player had to "test his luck", by rolling 2d6 and getting
    a
    > lower number than his current luck score. If you were lucky, you avoided
    a
    > particular set of dire circumstances, and if not, well, you know what
    > happened then. Each time your luck gets tested, your score gets lowered
    by
    > one, making it progressively harder to test your luck. You could also
    > voluntarily test your luck to try to influence a die roll by 1 point to
    > make the results more favorable to you. It was really sort of an ability
    > check sort of system, though, and it might just be easier to rule to your
    > players that succeeding in contested ability checks and other similar
    types
    > of situations can already be construed as a kind of luck (or lack
    thereof).
    >
    > James


    Yeah, I know these books.... if it weren´t for them I would never be here
    as a Ad&D DM (or player!!).I was about 10 years old and they were like my
    role-playing pre-history.

    MANTA
    ip209007@ip.pt

  6. #16
    Phil Burge
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    DKEvermore@aol.com wrote:

    > I'm not going to defend the AD&D system, but I would like to point out some
    > facts. First, I am trained in the use of all many of swords, including hand-
    > and-a-half and Greatsword, and I can tell you from first hand experience that
    > a "long" sword wieghs about 3-4 lbs., a heavy bastard sword about 5 lbs. and a
    > great sword on the heavy side weighs 8 lbs (guesstimate, I haven't weigh
    > mine). You can't try to tell me even a weak human could not lift it.
    >
    > You can tell me, however, they can't WEILD it effectively. It's a matter of
    > leverage, really, with swords. A weak person will not effectively (or very
    > weild it very long!) use the sword as it takes a LOT of energy to keep such a
    > thing in motion. After all, you have to use it to defend yourself as well as
    > attack, and although the blade will bash aside shields, weak parries from
    > smaller swords and such, it takes a bit to get it in motion. The force you
    > can generate towards the end of the sword, concentrated along a reasonably
    > fine edge... you get the picture.
    >
    > Believe me, it IS more a matter of "encumberance" and how well your body is
    > trained to deal with it than how strong you are.
    >
    > -DKE
    >

    Fair enough, the rules don't actually stop you from picking up and carrying
    around a sword that you can't use - you just are unable to use it - just what you
    are saying. Thanks for pointing it out.

    - -- Stay tuned, same bat time, same bat channel,

    Phil.

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