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  1. #1
    MANTA
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    > PART III ARMOR PROFICENCY & PC GAMES
    >
    > A lot of computer RPGs have armor proficency. One of my PCs asked about
    > this and I told im that warriors were proficent in all types of armor,
    > wizards in none, etc. But, what if a Thief wants to join a compny of
    > elite infantry (this is for spy stuff, and an EXAPMLE) and has to fight
    > with them? Thieves can't wear Field Plate! So lets create the armor
    > proficency.
    >
    > Armor Proficeny
    > Costs 1 weapon proficeny slot to become proficent if an armor not
    > norally allowed by your class. Wizards still can't cast spells in
    > armor, thieves can't use abilities (exept if you use the special table
    > in the Ranger's Hanbook but that only covers MS and HiS), and a priest
    > wouldn't want to wear something he normally can't (cause he doesn't want
    > to be visited by a bolt of enery from the heavan, ie lightning). This
    > also applies to warriors when they find new armor (as in never before
    > seen by anyone from the PC's area). Like a Samuri finding a Kngiht's
    > Plate Mail.
    >


    No need for that new prof. Fighters can use any kind of armor (rangers get
    their abilities limited while wearing heavy armor), Priests are restricted
    to the armors accepted by their faith, Rogues can use any armor but see
    their skills drastically reduced (check out the CTHb) - not to mention
    bards lose spell use (in my campaigns rogues get -2 in their AC while
    unarmored - they lose that too). As for wizards, they too can use armor -
    they just can┬┤t cast spells in it (so why do it?).
    It IS possible that any character, no matter what┬┤s his class uses any
    armor (even as a disguise!) but usually there are strong reasons that make
    them stick to the usual.



    > Also, one of my PCs asked about a new ability score, LUCK! It works for
    > computer games where there is no real intelligence but in a real life
    > campaign a DM can kinda tell if a character is a lucky type
    > (Elven Triple Multi-Classed Collectors are) or unlucky (Swashbuckers in
    > that trouble looks for them) based on the way the character is played.
    >

    I remember something about that in Players Options - Skills & Powers...
    (may be wrong though!)

    MANTA
    ip209007@ip.pt

  2. #2
    Kyle Foster
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    I love Birthrighr's treatment of crossbows. it is now a weapon worthy
    of having been banned by the Pope at one time for being unchristian in
    its lethality and down right unchivalrous.

    Kyle

  3. #3
    Tim Nutting
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    > PART I BOWS VS. CROSSBOWS

    The Crossbow of Birthright has certainly improved over the material listed
    in the PHB. Actually, Dragon has asked about this very same thing in their
    recent Forum columns, check them out.

    A few things to note - the best historical example of a properly employed
    longbow engagement was the battle of Agincourt. Henry V fielded several
    peasants who had grown up with the longbow as a hunting tool while the
    French employed several armored knights armed with crossbows. At the end
    of the fighting, the losses were something to the like of 10,000 French to
    100 English. This battle has often been called the "Deflowering of the
    French Chivalry."

    The crossbow is a much easier weapon to use than the longbow, and this is
    reflected in the game stats. Check out the proficiency rules and you will
    note that proficiency with a longbow costs 2 slots, while proficiency with
    the crossbow only requires 1. (Look for weapon proficiency regarding
    ranged weapons and read carefully.)

    > PART II-BOWS AND ARROWS
    I have no historical justification for the sheaf arrow complaint. However,
    the shortbow has one tremendous advantage over the longbow already. It can
    be fired from horseback. The Mongols used (and still use) a variant of the
    horn shortbow to great effect against Europe.

    > In one historical example the arrow from an English Longbow pireced a
    > Kngihts Leg armor (this is field plate here, the arrow hit a solid metal
    > plate) and came out the other side!

    The potential energy of the arrow is in part controlled by the mass
    (shaft/head/vanes), secondly its potential energy is controlled by friction
    and the loss of altitude. The longbow can shoot an arrow farther. This
    means it can be shot higher, and therefore, with more space to fall the
    arrow has more energy, thus more damage.

    A shortbow is usually fired in an ackward position, in fact the arrow head
    never reaches the extended arm. I am told that the longbow usually has a
    greater pull associated with it.

    > people who throw sharp sticks (spears) a range of 1. I always hated how
    > an Anurian Longbowman could hit and BE HIT (of all things) by some dumb
    > guy on a horse throwing sharp sticks.

    In 10 minutes (the length of a warcard turn) I can ride a horse pretty far
    and throw my sharp stick, and I can guarantee you that the little man with
    the stringed twig won't be able to outrun me.

    > Strength...Shouldn't a stong person get range bonuses for hurled weapons
    > and (possibly) bows? I mean I guy who can't lift a five year old can't
    > throw a spear as far as a guy with godly strength (ie 19+).

    It should, but the game doesn't allow for it. My suggestion is that you
    add the To-Hit modifier for strength to the long range category. (Your
    strength makes stuff go farther but doesn't help at all to improve your
    hitting ability)

    > PART III ARMOR PROFICENCY & PC GAMES

    Armor proficiency is covered in Combat & Tactics. The verdict is that with
    proficiency in a given armor the PC is so used to wearing it that the
    encumbrance is cut in half.

    > Also, one of my PCs asked about a new ability score, LUCK!

    We use luck in the games I play. this is represented by a number of Luck
    Points that can act as saviors. They can be used to automatically make a
    hit (thought not a crit), or to automatically avoid a blow (allowed after
    damage)

    Each PC starts with 3 luck points, major villains also have 3 points. They
    are gained by doing something absolutely extraordinary that the DM really
    likes without using Luck.

    RTGs Cyberpunk game has a Luck stat. In this game the stat is the number
    of freebie points that the PC may add to any given roll, but they are used
    once only, regained at the end of the adventure.

    Good Gaming
    Tim Nutting

  4. #4
    Phil Burge
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    The Olesens wrote:

    >



    > Warcards...Someone was talking about making t battlemat larger (6 x
    > 8?)and make missle ranges 2 squares to compensate. I have a better
    > Idea. Give Archers and Crossbowmen a range of 2. Give those dumb
    > people who throw sharp sticks (spears) a range of 1. I always hated how
    > an Anurian Longbowman could hit and BE HIT (of all things) by some dumb
    > guy on a horse throwing sharp sticks.

    In my Campaign I have already expanded the battle mat to a much larger 5x5
    mat. I have also given artillery a range of 2 as catapults should have a much
    longer range then bows. As for the differences between the bows and Javelins -
    yes there is a difference, but on the war card scale - probably not enough.

    >
    >
    > Strength...Shouldn't a stong person get range bonuses for hurled weapons
    > and (possibly) bows? I mean I guy who can't lift a five year old can't
    > throw a spear as far as a guy with godly strength (ie 19+).

    Runequest (Avalon Hill Games) covered this. Thrown weapons do extra damage
    based upon the STR of the wielder - half the normal STR bonus (which in
    Runequest is an extra dice roll - generally around 1d4 for a positive
    modifier)

    I've got a feeling that range is also dependent on STR but I can't remember
    the rules - something like STRx3 I think. Weapons useable is also dependent on
    STR and DEX. For example wielding a 2H sword takes more STR then a short sword
    - - it makes alot of sense!

    >
    >
    > PART III ARMOR PROFICENCY & PC GAMES
    >
    > A lot of computer RPGs have armor proficency. One of my PCs asked about
    > this and I told im that warriors were proficent in all types of armor,
    > wizards in none, etc. But, what if a Thief wants to join a compny of
    > elite infantry (this is for spy stuff, and an EXAPMLE) and has to fight
    > with them? Thieves can't wear Field Plate! So lets create the armor
    > proficency.
    >
    > Armor Proficeny
    > Costs 1 weapon proficeny slot to become proficent if an armor not
    > norally allowed by your class. Wizards still can't cast spells in
    > armor, thieves can't use abilities (exept if you use the special table
    > in the Ranger's Hanbook but that only covers MS and HiS), and a priest
    > wouldn't want to wear something he normally can't (cause he doesn't want
    > to be visited by a bolt of enery from the heavan, ie lightning). This
    > also applies to warriors when they find new armor (as in never before
    > seen by anyone from the PC's area). Like a Samuri finding a Kngiht's
    > Plate Mail.
    >
    > Also, one of my PCs asked about a new ability score, LUCK! It works for
    > computer games where there is no real intelligence but in a real life
    > campaign a DM can kinda tell if a character is a lucky type
    > (Elven Triple Multi-Classed Collectors are) or unlucky (Swashbuckers in
    > that trouble looks for them) based on the way the character is played.
    >

    Fair enough, but the class rules were meant to cover this. In my campaign if a
    thief wants to wear Plate mail to disguise himself I would let him - BUT he
    could not perform any thievey things and would probably have a negitive
    modifyer to Thac0 etc.

    There's my thoughts,

    Phil.

  5. #5
    Scott Koester
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    >Strength...Shouldn't a stong person get range bonuses for hurled weapons
    >and (possibly) bows? I mean I guy who can't lift a five year old can't
    >throw a spear as far as a guy with godly strength (ie 19+).
    >
    >
    In my campaigns we always added strength for a spear throw. Also used was
    a rule addition found in one of the (Best of?) Dragons. The article dealt
    with fashioning bows at say, triple the cost, in order to get a strength
    modifier factored in.


    Scott Koester
    muaddib+@osu.edu

  6. #6
    James Ray
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    - ----------
    > > PART I BOWS VS. CROSSBOWS
    >
    > The Crossbow of Birthright has certainly improved over the material
    listed
    > in the PHB. Actually, Dragon has asked about this very same thing in
    their
    > recent Forum columns, check them out.

    I certainly agree with most of the argument, but (there's always a "but",
    isnt there?) I think the most important thing about crossbows vs longbows
    is that for every bolt fired by the crossbow, the longbowman can fire two.
    I know virtually nothing about how accurate a bow really is at those kind
    of ranges, but when the longbowmen can loose such a volley of arrows, all
    they really have to do is drop their payload in the midst of the assembled
    enemy forces (sort of a target-rich environment). Probably the difference
    is due to Cerilian crossbowmen using a stronger mechanism to pull back the
    bolt, allowing them to fire their bolts with greater force. Since the
    crossbow is fired horizontally rather than vertically, it would certainly
    be harder to mount any sort of useful sights onto it, and hence its range
    disadvantages.

    >
    > > PART II-BOWS AND ARROWS
    > > Strength...Shouldn't a stong person get range bonuses for hurled
    weapons
    > > and (possibly) bows? I mean I guy who can't lift a five year old can't

    > > throw a spear as far as a guy with godly strength (ie 19+).
    The rules allow for the option of "strength bows", which allow the user to
    add his strength bonus to the damage inflicted by his arrows. Once you
    begiun allowing such weapons, though, players will start bringing up
    additional stretches to the rule - why cant my crossbow get a strength
    bonus, since I have to actually work it to cock it back. Just be careful
    how far you let them take it.
    >

    >
    > > Also, one of my PCs asked about a new ability score, LUCK!
    >
    Way back in the 80's, Steve Jackson and Ian Livingston (or was it just one
    of them?) released a series of "choose your own adventure"-type books with
    an RPG style gaming system that made wide use of a luck attribute. You got
    to roll a d6 and add 6 to it for your luck score. At various points in the
    adventure, the player had to "test his luck", by rolling 2d6 and getting a
    lower number than his current luck score. If you were lucky, you avoided a
    particular set of dire circumstances, and if not, well, you know what
    happened then. Each time your luck gets tested, your score gets lowered by
    one, making it progressively harder to test your luck. You could also
    voluntarily test your luck to try to influence a die roll by 1 point to
    make the results more favorable to you. It was really sort of an ability
    check sort of system, though, and it might just be easier to rule to your
    players that succeeding in contested ability checks and other similar types
    of situations can already be construed as a kind of luck (or lack thereof).

    James

  7. #7
    The Olesens
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    Phil Burge wrote:
    >
    > The Olesens wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Warcards...Someone was talking about making t battlemat larger (6 x
    > > 8?)and make missle ranges 2 squares to compensate. I have a better
    > > Idea. Give Archers and Crossbowmen a range of 2. Give those dumb
    > > people who throw sharp sticks (spears) a range of 1. I always hated how
    > > an Anurian Longbowman could hit and BE HIT (of all things) by some dumb
    > > guy on a horse throwing sharp sticks.
    >
    > In my Campaign I have already expanded the battle mat to a much larger 5x5
    > mat. I have also given artillery a range of 2 as catapults should have a much
    > longer range then bows. As for the differences between the bows and Javelins -
    > yes there is a difference, but on the war card scale - probably not enough.
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > Strength...Shouldn't a stong person get range bonuses for hurled weapons
    > > and (possibly) bows? I mean I guy who can't lift a five year old can't
    > > throw a spear as far as a guy with godly strength (ie 19+).
    >
    > Runequest (Avalon Hill Games) covered this. Thrown weapons do extra damage
    > based upon the STR of the wielder - half the normal STR bonus (which in
    > Runequest is an extra dice roll - generally around 1d4 for a positive
    > modifier)
    >
    > I've got a feeling that range is also dependent on STR but I can't remember
    > the rules - something like STRx3 I think. Weapons useable is also dependent on
    > STR and DEX. For example wielding a 2H sword takes more STR then a short sword
    > - it makes alot of sense!


    This is covered in AD&D, it is just not clearly visible. It is covered
    through enccumberance. A charachter with strength less than 9 (warrior
    minimum) can't wear much armor while carrying a sword. If the weapon
    weighs too much you get attack pentalties for low strength AND
    encumberance. If you are exeptionally strong you get bonuses

  8. #8
    Trizt
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    On 16-Jun-98, The Olesens (olesens@bellatlantic.net) wrote about [BIRTHRIGHT]
    - - Everything (I'm Ranting), read in parts:
    - ->PART I BOWS VS. CROSSBOWS
    - ->I now look upon the crossbow as a respectable weapon, but only by the BR
    - ->modifactions.
    Yes, but TSR has many times just took something from thin air, I hope they
    will now atleast make a small check about things (atleast make some searches
    on the net with help of yahoo or some other search engine).

    - ->PART II-BOWS AND ARROWS

    - ->A longbow and a shortbow fitted with flight arrows are both shot at
    - ->someone 10 feet away. They deal an equal 1d6 damage. REALITY CHECK! A
    - ->longbow has more power to it (show by its increased range) and would
    - ->thus deal more damage at close range than a short bow.
    There are many things which affects the damage as,
    ┬ž how much force used to pull the bow
    ┬ž the distance
    ┬ž the type of arrow head
    When it comes to type of bows, you can't just look at if they are long or
    short to determin which one would make more damage, the "english longbow"
    aren't supperior to the Turkish bow (shortbow), the shortbow has longer
    effective and max range than the longbow, both do need approx the same force
    behind the pull to get the arrow to fly.

    - ->In one historical example the arrow from an English Longbow pireced a
    - ->Kngihts Leg armor (this is field plate here
    The secret behnd this is the arrow head, not the bow.

    - ->Strength...Shouldn't a stong person get range bonuses for hurled weapons
    - ->and (possibly) bows? I mean I guy who can't lift a five year old can't
    - ->throw a spear as far as a guy with godly strength (ie 19+).
    Yes, have to agre about that.


    - ->PART III ARMOR PROFICENCY & PC GAMES

    - ->A lot of computer RPGs have armor proficency. One of my PCs asked about
    - ->this and I told im that warriors were proficent in all types of armor,
    - ->wizards in none, etc. But, what if a Thief wants to join a compny of
    - ->elite infantry (this is for spy stuff, and an EXAPMLE) and has to fight
    - ->with them? Thieves can't wear Field Plate! So lets create the armor
    - ->proficency.
    Check 'the complete thief's handbook', page 115 and forward. The limit that
    thieves couldn't use heavy armour was to hinder them from wearing a plate mail
    and pick pockets. And for wizards the reason is to prevent them from casting
    magic and having heavy protection which could make them almost immortals.

    In the end everything should be as simples as possible... so there are no need
    of changes of the damage compared between longbows vs shortbows.

    //Trizt of Ward^RITE

    --------------------
    E-Mail: trizt@iname.com URL: http://www.ukko.dyn.ml.org/~trizt/
    Nick : Trizt IRC: irc.kuai.se:5278 Channel: #Opers
    MUD: callandor.imaginary.com 5317
    --------------------

  9. #9
    Morgramen the Magician
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    IMC, we have used a luck attribute for several years now. It is rolled as a
    attribute, but no matter the system you use to create the stats, luck is ALWAYS
    a 1d20, and cannot be modified by any other die rolls. The number represents
    the characters general 'luck' and also reflects his ability to outwit the
    'fates', if you will.Basically, the number divided by 2 = the number of times a
    pc can reroll a die in his life time. I have ruled that the player must
    declare the use of his luck prior to his initial roll, thus, even if succeeds
    in the first roll, his luck point is still used. I have found that this has
    kept the players from using their luck points as 'free shots', cause their
    initial number is generally low, and half of an already low number is an even
    lower number. They tend to think before they declare the use of a luck point.
    Additionally, I use the luck score as an extra 'proficiency of attribute
    check', for those instances were luck would have a major factor. For example,
    falling off a cliff. I usually allow my players a dexterity roll to see if
    they grab the edge at the moment they go over, failing this, I might allow
    them a luck check to see if they land on an out cropping ledge, or grab that
    branch sticking out of the cliff face. If the luck roll fails, then the fates
    are not with them, and they are simply not lucky enough to have fallen where
    branches and ledges are...sheer cliff face, full damage coming up!
    I have found that this system works fairly well, though it dies give the
    players an extra chance at surviving almost certain doom. However, I hate
    killing my PC's, and as a PC I hate getting killed.

    Just some thoughts.

    Keith

  10. #10
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Everything (I`m Ranting), read

    James Ray wrote:

    > > > PART I BOWS VS. CROSSBOWS
    > >
    > > The Crossbow of Birthright has certainly improved over the material listed
    > > in the PHB. Actually, Dragon has asked about this very same thing in their
    >
    > > recent Forum columns, check them out.
    >
    > I certainly agree with most of the argument, but (there's always a "but",
    > isnt there?) I think the most important thing about crossbows vs longbows
    > is that for every bolt fired by the crossbow, the longbowman can fire two.
    > I know virtually nothing about how accurate a bow really is at those kind
    > of ranges, but when the longbowmen can loose such a volley of arrows, all
    > they really have to do is drop their payload in the midst of the assembled
    > enemy forces (sort of a target-rich environment). Probably the difference
    > is due to Cerilian crossbowmen using a stronger mechanism to pull back the
    > bolt, allowing them to fire their bolts with greater force. Since the
    > crossbow is fired horizontally rather than vertically, it would certainly
    > be harder to mount any sort of useful sights onto it, and hence its range
    > disadvantages.

    I just feel compelled to throw in my six bits on this subject....

    To me the essential difference between a crossbow and a bow is that a bow is
    that the is muscle powered, while the crossbow is essentially mechanical.
    Sure, it takes some muscle to winch the thing back and all, but that doesn't
    change the fact that it is really an engineered device. I wouldn't allow
    strength bonuses for crossbows because the way I see it, they are already
    designed to operate at their maximum effectiveness. You can't make a more
    powerful crossbow without making it larger, so the character would have to run
    around lugging an arbalest.

    It's possible that players could find some craftsman that could create a more
    powerful crossbow if given special materials of the finest quality, but such
    devices should be as rare as Stratavinsky (or however you spell the violin
    guy's name) instruments.

    I suppose a player might want to create some sort of magically enhanced
    crossbow, but magic usually isn't handled that way in AD&D. A magic crossbow
    would have pluses to hit and on damage rather than a strength bonus, so making
    a magically "strengthened" crossbow is a rather odd deviation from the game
    that doesn't make much sense to me.

    - -Gary

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